offgrid

Any gurus out there have any ideas on this problem?

8kW Quattro, 7 x Pylontech Force 1, 2 x Blue Solar chargers commissioned this week. System ticks away quite nicely then randomly the inverter appears to switch off very briefly. Owner complains of losing power for around 30 seconds. Happened twice yesterday and twice the day before. Can see the event in advanced logging (VE Bus state briefly off) but no warnings generated. Rest of system unaffected. Doesn’t seem to correspond to anything unusual… no large loads at the time, etc. We’ve had storms the last day or two, not sure if this would be a factor. Anyone have any ideas??

Hello everybody,

I have an offgrid installation with RS 48/6000 and 2x US2000 Pylontech batteries and I am wondering if two batteries is enough.

I can see that Victron has suggestion on how many batteries one needs for a properly functioning system depending on what Inverter/Charger one has. But the latest RS 48/6000 in not on the list!

It would be greatly appreciated if someone can provide any suggestions on how many Pylontech batteries are needed in a system with RS 48/6000.

Regards,

Alex

Has anyone try this configuration? Tigo Rapidshutdown devices installed in the PV Modules and an OFF grid PV system using VE Quattro, VE Smart Solar MPPT, & BYD LVL Lithium Batteries.

Good day!

Looking at https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/CCGX/en/dvcc---distributed-voltage-and-current-control.html#UUID-34a4601f-5b47-faa7-9b06-dc557696f5fc

Point 8.4.1 - sub-point "3"

"DC Loads are not accounted for. Even when a BMV or other battery monitor is installed. For example, with a configured maximum charge current of 50 Amps, and DC Loads drawing 20 Amps, the battery will be charged with 30 Amps. Not with the full allowed 50 Amps."

When or how can we change this? I cannot see why the DVCC cannot increase the current from chargers to compensate the loads and keep charging current at for example 50A.

Offcourse the idea works flawlessly in ESS configuration, but we do not have any inverter in the setup - but we do have high DC loads.

Any input or ideas will greatly be appreciated!

Regards

Can somebody advise the correct settings in the PV Inverter Support Assistant to control the output of the SB5000. The SB5000 ramps down to early and the batteries do not get enough charge.

Batteries: GEL 2x12V 250Ah in series and 3 sets in parallel.

SB5000TL-21 setting is Islanding 50Hz

Quattro Charger setting is: Absorption 28.8V; Float 27.6V. Max Charge amp are 75A.

The Quattro PV Inverter support setup is in default setting right now:

State	50Hz		.
Start	50.2		Hz
Minimum	52.7		Hz
Disconnect	53.0		Hz

I contacted SMA. Their response is as follows:

Our island mode 50Hz is default to operate in between 51-52Hz for P(f): 100%-0%.

In this case you may want to change the frequency settings on the Victron to match our island mode frequency range.

Hello,

in the Victron product compatibility-list the pylontech batteries are listed to only can be used in an ESS-system. I think this is necessary of the CAN.Bus-Communication. This means that communication only works with the ESS assistant (why)?

I have to wait further 6 months for grid-connection to be built. For that time I want to build a small DC-Coupled PV and a Multiplus with Pylontech-Batteries. A big AC-coupled 30kWp-PV will follow next year. Since I wanted to install a Victron-ESS anyway I am wondering if I could use the pylontech also in an offgrid installation until the grid is ready?
Alternatively I wanted to install the ESS-Assistant offgrid and hoped i can use the pylontech without discharging them to 0% when grid isn't available at no time. I also don't know if a generator would be accepted in the AC-In then when a grid code has to be chosen.

I red that ESS shouldn't be used in an offgrid-installation neither. I know that ESS doesn't make sense in that situation, but it has du be used to use the pylontechs?
So is there a solution to use these components until grid will be available?

Thank you!

Hi!

We have a permanent off-grid installation in a garden in Germany (no grid, no generator) with 7 kWp solar and a 24V 12 kWh lead-acid battery (so around 6 kWh usable).

We currently have a MultiPlus Compact 24/2000/50-30. Which has a nice low standby consumption, which seems to be important in the winter.

But at least in the summer the 2000VA of the inverter is too small for us, as we have a lot of solar and also some consumption:
1-2 fridges running, some times a pump for irrigation, the occasional lawn mower and we like to use an electric stove for cooking and baking. And the inverter shutting down due to overload is always a pain. Electrical car charging is also nice.

Now, we were thinking about 1-2 multiplus 24/5000 or about 1 quattro 24/8000.

Is it possible to normally have the existing multiplus 24/2000 running (for the low idle) and switch on the quattro automatically, maybe using PowerAssist?

Or should we rather get rid of the multiplus 24/2000 and have two multiplus 24/5000 running in parallel?

Do you have similiar installations? What would you buy?

Quattro 10k professionally installed March 2013. Off grid system, traction batteries 48v. Solar power 10 kw, 2 Sunnyboy TL 5000. Power failure at 0830 hrs August 2019. On investigation Quattro indicated an overload condition. (At this point in time basic load including 3 refrigerators could have been operating. All occupants of house in bed alerted by security system indicating a mains failure condition “No real load”. On advice from installer all AC output from Quattro turned off. All PV input systems shut down. Only power to Quattro was now DC at around 49 volts. Overload condition remained, indicated by overload LED. Attempted reset by turning Quattro to off position waited 5 minutes then turned Quattro on to Inverter mode. Quattro reset with no overload indicated. Waited a a few minutes then turned load back on to inverter. Same load as before (Virtually no load) system was working as expected. Ensured load was restricted for a while to ensure no overload possibility. All seemed to be working as designed. Returned to check system 15 minutes later and found the Quattro was indicating overload, making a horrible grinding sound and smoking. I isolated system by shutting down all AC load, shut down PV system and isolated battery bank.

This system has been well maintained, never overloaded and the room where it lives is cooled in summer to avoid overheating.

Very disappointing that the Quattro actually flamed out after 6 years. Contacted the closest Victron service agent. He didn’t sound surprised At what I had explained and mentioned “short circuit”.

This unit is not that far out of warranty and I am expecting no joy from the agent. I was surprised to read of how many instances where the overload situation has occurred with Quattro and Multi units. Seems this sustainable energy thing is very expensive especially if things catch on fire.

Any help would be appreciated in helping me understand how this unit could work well for 6 years then almost catch on fire. I would have thought protection would have been built in to avoid this situation.

Hi community.

I have got a large number of Victron-Pylontech off-grid systems with Smartsolar MPPT installed. The inverters and MPPT are programmed as per the victron-pylontech instructions https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom . As these are off-grid installations with generator, I can not run ESS assistant.

I have realized that when solar power is available but the inverters call the generator because the load is too high, as soon as the inverters sync with the ac source, the inverters take all the charge and the MPPT DC charge goes to something neglectable. When the inverters stop syncing with the AC source the solar power raise again. Needless to say this is not desirable and client not happy with it.

I have seen others threads with similar problem but honestly a lot of ramblings and not really any clear solution.

The questions I think it is very simple. On an off-grid installation (with no ESS Assistant), How can I prioritize DC Solar over Generator?

This is an off-grid install.

Firmware of each unit has been updated and confirmed

I've enabled DVCC / SVS and such as was discussed on the 2019 " DC coupled MPPT & Multiplus with Sonnenschein @Home Lithium managed battery" forum post.

All unit show on up on the Cerbo GX ( battery, Quattro, CC ) But nothing charges the battery. CC shows it's externally controlled with charge settings, etc. but it doesnt seem to get the " Go " from the battery/BMS.

Same with the Quattro, I've set up unit using the VE-Configure. Turn on the genny, shows voltage, relays click but never locks.

Is there a setting that I could be missing? Or something changed since 2019?

I find it strange I cant get any charging method working. Points me toward a Cerbo setting incorrect.

The battery shows on the Cerbo and I have Can traffic TX/RX. The Supplier and I have been tring all sorts of different things over the last 2 weeks with no luck.

Is there a rule between PV size on Solar chargers and the inverter/charger?

For example, I have a system of 6 Quattro 15 KVA and 19 MPPT Rs 200 A.

Hi,

I have a solar off-grid system for a house. I have 4320Wp of solar and using 250/70 smartsolar mppt and a 5KVA multiplus 2 inverter.

My question is that am I required to add a cerbo GX or the system can work properly without it?

Hi

We are experiencing this same issue on multiple sites. Both with AC connected PV and sites with charge controllers.

Quattro 5kw off grid system. 50hz 230v

When the backup generator is operating, the output from the Quattro varies wildly and also it appears so does the load placed on the generator - to charge the batteries (from the VRM portal data)

This is backed up up by the display on the generator (Hyundai DHY6000) which shows frequency.

Frequency output from the quattro is so unstable it cases the Fronius PVinverter to cut out and also the machine machine on site to go into fault. Also voltage is all over the place, and al lthis causes lighting flicker too.

UPS function setting is off

I have tried lowering the shore power setting.

I have tried lowering the output voltage slightly on the Quattro. (output on the genny when unloaded is 230v)

Dynamic current limiter on or off makes no difference.

Accept wide frequency range is on.

I am assuming that the quattros inverter attempts to track the AC input frequency and doesnt do a great job of it.

If powerassist was disabled - would this prevent the inverter output from trying to track whats happening with the AC input ?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Chris

Hi all,

Thanks for the response with the CCGX defining points for chargers, looks like I should have rtfm in the first place.

I've come up with a modified version of the "MultiPlus system example 3kW-24V-120V AC" system schematic. It's a small cabin with only small AC loads with a generator for supplemental charging needs during low solar generation. Sharing it with the community to see if I'm getting something very wrong and need to change my parts before ordering.

Thanks!

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Cabin Layout.pdf

I am struggling with the correct settings of my solar offgrid system.

System setup:-Multiplus II 48/3000/35, Smartsolar 150/35, Color Control GX (DVCC enabled - charge current limit at 35A, STS, SCS and SVS enabled), BMV-720, 6x320W solar panels, 48V/7000Wh Li-ion battery.

Float is set to 54V and Absorptium is 56,8V (standard settings for Li-ion). When battery is charging, then solar is used for direct consumption an the rest is used for charging. But when the battery is fully charged, MPPT goes in to Float state and the solar current is 0 and all consumption comes from the battry. The next morning a new cycle is started (Bulk-Absorptium-Float). During the summer the solar power is higher than my consumption so it is not a problem, but during autumn/winter it will be.

Is this normal or what can I do to maximise use of the solar panels?

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Are there rules to combine Fronius inverter ( AC coupling ) with Solar charger ( DC coupling ) other than rule 1.1 in the ac coupling side ?

*****System: Off Grid

3 x Victron Quattro 10kva

1 x Fronius 10kW Symo - 1 x 20kW Symo

18 x Pylontech US 3000

2 x Skylla 48v 50ah AC chargers ( Supplement charge for batteries )

84 x 410w JA Solar Mono half cell

System was installed on new build home. We experienced dipping in the lights. The electrician has done a logger test last week and the results are a bit concerning. Lowest dip recorded was 180v ( 10 - 60 milliseconds), and it regularly dips below 10%, 207v.

Highest swell recorded 257v (10 - 60 milliseconds )

Attached logger data and Victron data ( 1 min intervals )

AMSO 1216 JNF Electrical.pdfHuis Visser Statistics for week 21 May to 28 May 2021.pdf

L1 (Victron) - Phase B (Logger Test)

L2 - Phase C

L3 - Phase A

The underfloor heating runs on Phase C (L2). It switched off on Tuesday morning and technicians are coming in to have a look.

My question is, has anybody experienced a similar situation? Is there a way to minimize the shifting?

Thank you

**********************************************************************************************

Update:

* Results of second test. First 36hrs main DB incoming 3 phase line from Off grid system. Last 36hrs directly on Victron output and termination boxes. (This was done to check that data corresponds and we have no other electrical problem in-between DB and Inverters.)

AMSO 1217 Test 2.pdf

Results are still the same.

*The underfloor heating has been fixed. Unrelated issue

* We have done a firmware Quattro's and N-E bond in the termination boxes. ( This was done before new logger test was done)

* Lights are more stable. Flickering only happens when sun is going down, load increases and the shift happens between Fronius not being able to supply sufficient power and the batteries taking over (100% SOC) I will follow up with Fronius to see if there is a fix for this. ( I have upgraded the Fronius to latest software)

* My question is: The fluctuations are very short in duration 20 - 40 milliseconds. On average we remain on 230V. I do understand being fully of grid will make the voltages fluctuate. Is this in normal parameters? Is there a way to minimize it? Will it have a negative long-term effect on household appliances?

***********************************************************************************************

Hi All

Looking for some brainy Victron experts to help me with a problem installation. (Background: I work for a company that installs alternative power systems and we install 5-6 systems a month, predominantly using Victron Energy equipment)

The setup:

3 x Quattro 15kVA in an off-grid application using AC & DC-coupled solar on a Pylontech battery bank.
4 x Victron SmartSolar 250/100 Solar Charge Controllers
1 x Fronius Symo 15.0 AC coupled PV inverter
12 x Pylontech US3000 Lithium Batteries
Victron Cerbo GX with Touch Display

Setup: Off-Grid with a generator (80kVA)
PV Inverter Support Assistant installed

I get sporadic occurrences of notification #1 Device Switched Off, where the Phase 1 master inverter simply switches off.

What I have tried:
1. I have updated to firmware version 476 and replaced all VE.BUS cables with Victron supplied cables.
2. I have also tried replacing the phase L1 master inverter with a new Victron Quattro 15kVA Inverter.
3. I have tried to analyse all the available data on VRM, but I cannot see any drop in DC bus voltage, an overload from AC output or excessive generation from the Fronius PV.

When it occurs, all of the LED's on the Phase L1 Master simply go out, and the other two inverters present an LED sequence indicating that they are missing (not detecting) the master.

30s later the Phase L1 master restarts and the 3 inverters begin inverting again. No alarm in the VRM alarm logs. Only a notification on the Victron Cerbo GX indicating #1 device has switched off.

Would really appreciate some help.

Hello,

the manual (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/actor_offgrid ) says that when using AC-Thor in an off-grid system frequency shifting (PV-inverter assistent) has to be activated at the Multi.

- Is this also necessary if only DC-coupled PV is used (no PV-inverter on AC-out)?

- what are the frequency settings in the "PV-inverter" assistent? Are the default-settings ok?

Best regards

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New system with Quattro 8000, Primo 6.0 on ac out. When SOC reaches 100% and the fronius shuts down the quattro stops completly. All lights are off and no output. VE communications still works. Restart needed manual from the quattro and same happends when power comes back to the Fronius. Also strange that the loads are the same as the fronius output, but no loads are connected at all!

I have two solar inverters connect to the "critical loads" output (AC-OUT1) of the MultiPlus-II in an off grid situation. This means the MultiPlus-II is disconnected from the grid, i.e. nothing connected on AC-IN1.

The inverter of the MultiPlus-II is providing a stable 50 Hz 230V grid on AC-OUT1 so the solar inverters are seeing a grid (provided by the MultiPlus-II) and are powering on. They "monitor" the grid for about 30 seconds like usual and then they should switch to producing energy and feeding it back into the grid. At this point however, both the solar inverters display a similar error message.

Zac-Bfr at <some value> Ohm

According to https://my.sma-service.com/s/article/Blink-code-3-dZac-Bfr-dZac-Srr-Zac-Bfr-Zac-Srr?language=en_US, this indicates that the impedance of the grid (provided by the MultiPlus-II) is too high.

The solar inverters then shut down (or re-initiate), monitor the grid for some time and end up display the same Zac-Bfr message with a slightly different impedance value in Ohm.

I have tried connecting only solar inverter 1 or only solar inverter 2 to the MultiPlus-II but the result remains the same Zac-Bfr message.

Why don't my solar inverters "like" (the impedance of) the MultiPlus-II grid and what can I possibly do about it?

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Hi All, we have an off-gird system using two LG resu 6.5 batteries in parallel with each other which is monitored with a Venus GX. The LGs also get tied to a large AGM setup at certain times of the day to share the charging. Overall the system is monitored and controlled by many Sonoff switches and a few Orange Pi's running a common bash script which works pretty well for us.

One very minor outstanding issue is the Venus GX only shows one LG battery at a time. If we unplug a canbus cable from one of the batteries, the VGX will show the other and vice versa, but the VGX will never show both at the same time. The VGX shows them both as Product: LG resu battery and Product ID: B004. Is it because they have the same product details? Do they need to be daisy chained rather than each connected directly to a canbus port on the VGX?

Its surprising the VGX can't tell it has two batteries connected to it..

Hi there,
This is how I am planning in wiring my off grid tiny house on wheels (essentially a caravan) and just wanted to see if anyone can see any issues with it? Is the earth circuit correct? Photo attached.

I haven't drawn any of the AC side of of the installation for the purposes of this diagram but I'd like to add that in addition to the connections in this diagram, I will also have:

-All the earth's from my AC loads will connect back to my negative buss bar
-A large cable (same size as battery cable) joining my negative buss bar to the trailer chassis.

Another note - The reason I have run the MPPT positive cable through the other pole on my DC isolator is because when I switch that off I want everything to stop, including the charging of my batteries. I realise I can just turn the PV isolator switches off and achieve the same result, but I want it all to turn off with the flick of one switch.

Sorry for the long winded question and thank you in advance!

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I am building a Tiny house on top of a steel trailer. My tiny house on wheels will be mobile and off grid with batteries charged by PV array. Will have the occasional plugin to a Generator for extra charging if need be.

My question is how does the ground circuit work in this scenario.

- Does the earth wire from the inverter, MPPT, PV panels grounds, battery casing, AC power outlets, lights, trailer frame, etc all join to a copper steak that I can drive into the ground when I park the trailer?

- Should the battery negative also be joined to the earth buss bar?

I have attached a rough diagram of how I think the earth circuit would go (earths in green). Could someone please let me know if this looks right. I quickly drew this diagram mainly for to show the earth circuit so I do apologise about the rough nature and any symbols that aren't quite right.

Thank you!

Hi, I have 2x Multiplus 5KVa inverters in parallel with 18x 400W panels and 4x 6.2KVA batteries. I Have turned off my feed from the grid as it is extremely unreliable.

Is this safe and OK for the system to run permanently without any supply from the grid ? is there anything bad or negative doing this ?

Is there any settings I need to change to optimize the system for this scenario to be used ?

Thank you

Hi. We have a Quattro 48/10000 (& CCGX display) with Fronius Primo 5.0 (4kw PV) and a SMA windy boy (6kw turbine) on the AC output.

This is an off grid installation.

At the moment their outputs are combined when displayed on the CCGX remote console (displays as PV inverter with a Fronius side tag). But in the CCGX menu device list they are separate.

Is there any way to display these two inverters separately on the CCGX remote display? So I can see PV and wind production separately or do I have to just live with going into the menu and device list?

I currently have a x15 Quattro48/10000 set up in a 3-phase configuration (5 units each phase). The system is off-grid and boosted by a 175 kW generator each evening for a few hours. Recently one Quattro on Phase 3 has been overloading during generator operation.

I have been able to temporarily remedy the problem by lowering the input current limit to 95A down from 110A. However, that 110A is what it has run at for the past 5 months without issue.

Previously the system has overloaded at generator startup/when the Victrons first accept the power, however these recent overloads have occurred hours into generator operation.

What could have the caused this Quattro to suddenly not be able to handle the incoming current?

Thank you

Hi,

I have installed in my campervan a 315W solar panel + victron MPPT 100/30 + AGM battery 190Ah C10. Everything worked properly during nearly a year. It's been a few days that my MPPT is showing a very strange behaviour when being in Absorption mode.

First of all, the voltage is not kept constant during absorption as it should. The received power keep oscillating between 0W and the maximum power that the PV cell can provide. It looks to me that the MPPT cannot find the maximum power point anymore. Eventually the battery started to make a slight bubbling noise.

I lowered the absorption votlage such that the system could go into float mode and still this strange oscillating behaviour shows up.

Below the configurations and some sceenshots of the status;

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Could someone help me with this issue? Might it be an MPPT issue, ... ?

Any help woul be very appreciated.

Sacha

Hi everyone! Long time first time.

I recently bought the Cerbo GX unit to add to my existing installation, which has a Victron MPPT Charge Controller and a Phoenix 12/1200 inverter. Prior to the Cerbo, I was using VE.direct bluetooth dongles to connect to the controller and inverter separately. With the Cerbo, I am using VE.direct cables to connect both inverter and controller to the Cerbo. I am *super happy* with this upgrade and the VRM portal; however, my inverter has mysteriously shut itself off 3-4 times since I changed the bluetooth dongle out for the VE.direct cable (24 hours). I was initially worried that it was some kind of software issue, but the more that it happens, I am increasingly convinced that the remote control jumper, which is right next to the VE.direct port on the inverter, is a little loose, and the normal vibration of the inverter during use is causing it to jostle out of place, which then turns the inverter off. The only way I am able to reconnect is to go to the inverter and jiggle the power switch, re-plug the VE.direct cable, etc, and it appears that all of these things are mounted on the same piece of hardware inside the device, because they all move in unison when I jiggle one of them.

Has anyone else had this experience? Is this a plausible explanation? Could this be being caused by a software issue instead? I am planning a major upgrade to my whole system and bought the GX first to play around with it. I love Victron products, which are otherwise awesome, and really want to get to the bottom of this. TIA.

ETA: I don't know why this would start happening upon swap-out of the bluetooth dongle -- that sure points to a software issue. But I think it's possible that it just was stable from having not been touched for over a year, and my messing with it caused a new hardware issue.

Hello,

i have a question about a off-grid system.

We have a existing off-grid system with 3 quattro's and BYD LVL battery's.

We are thinking about adding a multiplus 2 and connect this to the grid and help to charge the battery on the dc side. Can we connect the multiplus to the cerbo on the offgrid system?

Or just install the multiplus as a standalone charger?

Any remarks? Is this even possible?