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Multiplus-II grid protections and feed-in control in 3-phase configuration

Hello guys,

I am from Czech Republic and planning to use 3x MultiPlus-II 48/3000 in 3-phase configuration and DC coupled system with PV array (2 strings, 2 MPPTs) and Pylontech batteries.

Of course I will set grid code to "Europe (EN50549-1:2019)" and there are several options for over/undervoltage and over/underfrequency protections, conditions for normal connect and reconnect after trip, controlling power according to frequency and voltage and also option for use Aux 1 input as feed-in disable signal. Setting of all protection is clear for me but our electric distributor have several requirements for connecting "micro-generators" (PVE with P < 10 kW) to the grid, so I have two questions about grid code functionalities especially in 3-phase mode:

  1. If the condition for activating grid protection on one Multi is met and therefore AC input of Multi must be disconnected from the grid, is then automatically disconnected all Multis from the grid?
  2. I want to use disable feed-in using Aux 1, because our distributor must be able to reduce power feeding to grid (for these micro-generator only two states: 100% and 0% feed-in). My question is how disable feed-in function is realized in practise on Multis and whether I must used Aux 1 on all Multis (for example with 3-pole relay, each pole for each Aux 1) or if is sufficient to use Aux 1 only on one Multi (probably on phase L1) and feed-in will be automatically disabled in general for all Multis?


Thank you very much for your answers.

motylu asked
motylu rolled back ·

3 Answers

Multiplus 2 Output Voltage

Hello

I have 3 Multiplus 2 inverters with 3 phase connection. The problem is that the AC output voltage of one of the inverters has reached a value of 300V and reached 190V on another one ( the output voltage is set to be 230V)

This problem caused great damaged to the clients electrical equipment.

The problem only occurs when Grid power is ON. I tried disconnecting the grid and everything went back to normal.

I tested the AC input voltage and it has a value of 230V so the input power could not be the problem cause.

Tgere is nothing wrong with the inverter connections.

What might be the problem?

hanyhc asked
basil katakuzinos answered ·

3 Answers

settings MultiPlus-II GX and MultiPlus-II via VE.Bus

Change settings MultiPlus-II GX and MultiPlus-II

I have a few questions that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere. That's why I hope this group could help me.

We are looking for a Victron setup. At home we have a 3 phase suply. That is why we have chosen for ourselves 1x a Multiplus-II-GX(L1-N) and 2x Multiplus-II (L2-N and L3-N).

We would like to be able to configure these devices. Everywhere in the manuals they talk about an accessory (Interface MK3-USB) for configuring the devices. But I was wondering since we have a Multiplus-II-GX we can set it through the internet port. And if this Multiplus-II-GX is connected via the VE.bus ports to the other 2 Multiplus-II could these devices be set up like this trough the GX? Or is It realy nasecary to configure these units to heave a MK3-USB converter. We would also like to keep our system in check via the (VRM system). For that you would need a Cerbo GX. If I understand correctly, this device would ensure that all data about my Multiplus-II is available via the VRM. But since I will have a Multiplus-II-GX is it still necessary to add such a Cerbo GX? Or can the Multiplus-II-GX version also talk to the VRM-online system?

Hopefully my question is loud and clear. Hopefully someone knows if this would be possible.

Thx!

Sander Callewaert asked
Alexandra edited ·

1 Answer

Parallelbetrieb mehrerer MultiPlus II (3-Phasen) , verschiedene Leistungsklassen (5000+3000)

Hallo und guten Morgen!

Frage 1:
Kann ich 2 x 3 MultiPlus II verschiedener Größen (3 x 48/5000 + 3 x 48/3000) parallel im 3-Phasenbetrieb betreiben oder müssen das gleiche Leistungsgrößen sein?

Frage 2:

Kann ich 3 Multiplus (3-phase) im einen Raum, mit 3 weiteren MultiPlus (3-phase) im anderen Raum verbinden, wenn die DC-Leitung 8 Meter lang ist? (70-95mm²)

Vielen Dank für Eure Hilfe!

vaiouser asked
vaiouser answered ·

2 Answers

Can i use a 3 phase meter with 1 phase inverter

Some electrical installations in South Africa are 3 phase 400V. The client still wants to keep his 3 phase power and only wants to install a single phase solar system on 1 phase for his critical loads. he will move all his critical loads to that particular phase.

Will the system not get confused if I install a 3 phase meter but use a single phase inverter?

So basically the 3 phase meter would there to see what all the 3 phases consume however only 1 phase will be able to feedback to non essential loads (ESS self consumption), as he cant do phase compensation or feedback into the grid.

nicholas-zenzele asked
cristimv answered ·

1 Answer

Victron Quattro 10KW delivering only half rated power

I have dual Quattro 10kva/120s in split phase. We are 'off grid' and have exactly 20kva solar input available using enphase micro-inverters a/c coupled to AC-OUT1. For the battery storage we have 110KWH of lithium ion batteries. These feed the inverters via a Lynx 1000amp bus system with 4/0 cables going to the inverters. Quattro firmware is 430.

When the sun is shining, I have plenty of power available, no issues whatsoever. We can routinely run 15 to 17000 watts of electrical load and STILL charge the batteries at 100-150 amps DC. No thermal or overload issues at all.

However, once the sun is down, if loads go above 10000 watts for any length of time L2 gets a temperature alarm and shuts down the system. This is most frustrating. Our entire farm is on this system, including AC, water heater, well pump, etc. At time of shutdown the Color control shows 4900 watts draw on L1 and 5010 watts draw on L2.

Our A/C draws about 20 amps (240v) when running, which is right at 100 amps of dc.

Throw in another load, such as charging one of our EVs at 20 amps (240v) and the system will only run for between 10 and 20 minutes before we get the dreaded:


VE.Bus System Automatic monitoring Temperature L2: Alarm 2021-06-16 20:06:37 1m, 15s


appears and the inverters shut down.


MOST annoying.

We are using a 1000 amp Lynx system with two sets of 4/0 battery cables to the Quattros.

Cables are matched for length and size.


What can be done to increase my available power when running on batteries?




jlportman3 asked
Alexandra edited ·

2 Answers

1-Phase ESS on 3-Phase Grid with Phase Regulation: "Total of all phases", Error displaying correct consumption

Hi!

I run multiple installations on multiple sites, all on a three phase grid connection (Germany: phase compenastion: "total of all phases") using a single Multiplus II on L1 with batteries in ESS mode. Some sites use an EM24 others ET340, they all have one problem in common:

as soon as any generator (PV) is connected to any other phase than L1 (or also three-phase, in this case usually Fronius SYMO), the summation of "power used" or "power origin" on the VRM goes completly wrong.

In the last case there were two "dumb" inverters, which I connected through two ET112, also these I had to both switch to L1 due to the fact that there is no easy way to set the ET112 to tell the Venus "I am L2 or L3".

The setpoint is fine, so purley cosmetic but to show customers their real data is important.

Is there a way to fix that? I see a huge potential in those small systems with 4.8 or 7kWh capacity, as this in the average household apprx. doubles self consumption and in most cases is enough to cover the night and some peak-loads during the day.

I know there are some more threads covering he problem of "sum of all phases" in the German market, I found none with this specific one though.

Thank you very much for your help!

Johannes Fleißner

jfleissner asked
jfleissner edited ·

0 Answers

Problem with Ignore dedicated AC input in three phase system.

Hello, I have a problem with a three-phase installation consisting of 3x Multiplus 48/5000/70-100. It is an off-grid installation with a Pylontech lithium battery bank and SmartSolar controllers, all controlled with a Cerbo GX through DVCC. The system works smoothly off-grid. But a three-phase electrical network connection was installed in the sector, and with this the house was connected to the network and increased consumption with the intention of using the electrical network.

The idea of the new operating mode is to use the solar system as a priority (and complete backup in case of grid failure), and to leave the grid as support at times when the loads exceed the capacity of the inverters or the batteries are low. For this, the virtual switch was configured in "Ignore dedicated AC input" mode, according to manuals this instruction must be configured only to Master L1 and when doing it in this way the instruction really works but only responds to the values of L1, and when it is exceeded the power (4500W) in L2 or L3 the system does not transfer, generating an overload in inverters and cutting the system. When configuring the virtual switch with the same instruction to ignore AC input in each inverter, the instruction of (no) ignore AC input definitely does not work or operate in any way, the AC input is always ignored and does not transfer at any time.

Is there a way to ignore AC input in 3 phase system and work for all 3 phases, and the system can immediately switch from inverter to main when the loads for any phase exceed the established power limit? (All devices are with updated firmwares.)

ingeniero-sumsol asked
redsam answered ·

1 Answer

3 phase Quattro 48/10000 problem with dedicated ignore AC

Hello, we have a 3 phase system with Quattro 48/10000.
We have program the inverters with virtual switch, dedicated ignore AC input.

The load parameters set to each inverter are: do not ignore AC input when the loads are higher than 7000W for 5 seconds.
This parameter works only for L1. When the loads are higher than 7000W on L2 or L3 the system does not switch to AC input.

Please advise as soon as possible!

Kind regards.

Alexis Kalogerakis asked
redsam answered ·

2 Answers

power to grid calculation 3 phase system

hi,


in the dashboard you have power that is going to the grid and power that is taken from the grid.

in my system a 3 phase system. ( 3 x multiplus 2 , smarthsunt, mppt, ccgx an ac coupled pv system.) is there a little problem withe the calculation af the power.

when i sending power to the grid on phase 1 lets say 1 kw and i using 1 kw on phase 2 the energy meter from the grid stays on 0. what is normal in this case.

but in the victron dashboard its counting the 1 kw that i am sending on phase 1 on the to grid counter.

and the 1 kw that i am taking from te grid it is counting on the from grid counter.

is it posible to disable this an to use the same calculation that the grid meter is using ?

phase compensation is enabled in the ess system now.


thanks

dieter


diet asked
Alexandra commented ·

2 Answers

60kW Off Grid system with Quattro and Fronius +85 kW Storage

Hi Everyone,

I'm currently planning to build a off-grid solar system to be used in an agriculture farm. The system will be mostly used to power the water irrigation system and to will have to provide a mini-grid as we are several Kms away from the grid.

The system will be composed of the following components:

1-60kW Solar array with 450W mono panels

2-3x Fronius Eco 27 3 Phase Inverters

3-4x Quatro 15000VA (2xPh1, 1xPh2, 1xPh3)

4-85kW Battery Storage


[image]


The main load of the system are the water pumps that source water from a borehole well and the distribution pumps that adds boost pressure. The majority of load will be exclusively operated during sunlit hours and the energy produced should be consumed directly from the output of the Fronius inverters while the remaining output will be used to slowly charge the batteries. The are a few small loads such as lights, a weather station and an alarm system that will be using the battery during the night as well as the residual consumption of the Quattros and Inverters.

When the main loads are not active the frequency shifter functionality should adapt the inverters output.

The reason for the post is to ask for comments on the setup, if anyone thinks there something I missed or any foreseen problems. Also I would like simplify the setup and use a single 3 Phase inverter, does Victron provide a compatibility matrix of brands and models that enable off-grid functionality with the Quattro.

Thanks a lot

Luis Fernandes asked
shaneyake edited ·

2 Answers

Color Control not updating info with live Quattro data post update to 2.71/2.72

Recent update from 2.6 something (maybe2.64?) to 2.71 and 2.72 on the color control during the systems annual service.

3 phase Quattro 5kw system (3 units) for backup for a house.

Color Control sees the system fine and displays data after boot, but this is no longer continualy updated. Always been perfect up to the recent update.

If the CC is rebooted, the curent state updates the displayed data. But any change in state, there are no changes to the data displayed. (also echoed on the VRM portal in the Advanced data displayed)

Downgrade back to 2.71 makes no difference.

Chris asked
Chris answered ·

2 Answers

3-Phase Multiplus II - LED lights

What are the LEDs meant to display for a 3-phase installation? Is there a link I can use to find the different 3-phase LED meanings? I have tried looking at the Victron Toolkit already.

sven-1 asked
Matthias Lange - DE commented ·

1 Answer

Is it not possible to setup 3 Multiplus II 3phase via CerboGX and VRM without MK3-interface?

I tried with VE.bus system configurator and VRM-remote but could only connect to one Multiplus II-VE.bus. It ended allways when searching for the 3 Multiplus via COMport search.

gabreitenbach asked
shaneyake commented ·

4 Answers

One phase grid to three phase distribution

I have one phase 230V grid. Three phase Multiplus output. 48V battery pack.

Grid serves as battery charger only through multiplus when voltage drops below 45 volt.

I get phase rotation warning every time when grid supply is needed.

I have connected 1 phase grid to AC input of each Multiplus.

Can the grid supply be used to charge the battery pack when connected to L1 Multiplus only because in my setup it doesn't work due to rotation warning?

Thks

jean-paul-1 asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

3 Phase Isolation Transformer possible with Victron Isolation Transformers

Hello Guys,


I have a question regarding a 3 phase isolation transformation schematic.

I would like to design a system where in the case of a missing neutral I still have neutral on the boat with the isolation transformers.

Main issue is that in America most shore power system with 3 phases are without neutral on the input and my device behind that needs a neutral.
Voltage and Frequency is clear that it will depend on the input, but that is not an issue in my case.

Question is would that work?

[image]


Greetings

Phil

Phil asked
Phil edited ·

0 Answers

3 phase single phase grid

Have a possible system to install

Client had a single phase AC grid supply

Is currently having to use a 3 phase generator for his 3 phase equipment means

Wanting to install a 3 phase Quattro set up With 3 phase fronuis SYMO to make make a micro grid

I know we can use the 3 phase generator for supplement the charging that the solar is falling short of


my question is can the single phase grid supply usable for supplementary charging with the 3 phase Quattro setup

Answering the question my self I would say no

Tho I think it may be usable if a single to 3 phase converter is used ???


anyone have any thoughts on this ?


regards

mikeb asked
beaulawley commented ·

2 Answers

External control mode in 3ph Quattro system

We use a grid parallel 3-ph system with 3 Quattro-48 10000-140-100/100 inverters and 4 Smart 25.6V-200Ah batteries. The ESS description states that in the External control mode, it is possible to forcibly set the system to the power supply mode (discharging to the grid) or charging from the grid using external control. Where can I find information on how to implement this mode, what additional equipment or devices are needed for this? We would like to implement a mode in which, at a certain time, the system power output to the grid (for example, in the amount of 20 kW for 1 hour). Is it possible to configure the system for uneven output in phases, that is, 7 kW is output to the L1 phase, 2 kW is output to the L2 phase, and 1 kW is output to the L3 phase. Is it possible, when issuing one phase, to charging he other phase to discharging mode from the grid? If possible, where can I find detailed information on configuring the system.

Neganov Leonid asked

0 Answers

3 x Quattro's in 3 phase with single phase shore connection

I've got 3 x 10 kVA Quattros set up for a 3 phase AC load.

The primary generating source is a 48 V DC Hybrid Generator and lithium battery system connected to the Quattros at 48V DC.

There is a intermittent AC mains resource that I'd like to utilise to charge to batteries or feed the load when available, the AC connection is in single phase. At the moment, the AC-in connection is wired up at 3 phase with 1 phase connected to each of the Quattro AC-in-1 connections.

Can I connect a single phase AC-in even though AC out in 3 phase ?

Should it just be connected to 1 phase only ? i.e. 1 quattro AC-in connection or should I parallel the AC-in across 3 Quattros ?

energylad asked
peterwolff answered ·

2 Answers

3 Phase AC coupled system with single phase Input on 4 th Inverter

Hi

Wondering if I can run AC coupled solar (on Victron output) on a 3 phase system with single phase grid input ?

I know this works with DC coupled, as I can just turn off switched as group and passthrough/ invert single phase supply to DC then back to 3 phase AC , however can not run PV inverter support or ESS when not switched as group ( so not control available via frequency shifting).


So my question is if I run a 4th quattro, can I add that to phase L1 and and use that to facilitate my single phase supply and have that invert AC supply to DC that way.

I have built the system in demo mode and it looks like it will allow it, but will it actually work? Also it is allowing me to run ESS in the config that I have built, will ESS work under this config as the client wants to export excess solar.

any help would be greatly appreciated.




Thanks

Adam asked
Adam answered ·

2 Answers

ET 340 displaying wrong readings on Grid icon

Hello All,

Just did 2 x awesome installs of 3 phase systems with the ET340 meter. Both are displaying strange behaviour on the consol. grid setpoint is maintained but the + and - numbers on grid side worries me.....

[image]


for instance, It shows a total load of 1910W on the meter, but on grid side it kinda splits it in 2, seemingly feeding back to grid on 1 phase?? And this only happens when I have available solar.

Is this normal behaviour? or have I done something wrong??

Wiring of unit, is as per instruction except for neutral that is not going to other side of meter? Not sure if that is an issue? I will check that early next week.

On my ET114 installs on sigle phase I dont see any negative numbers on grid side.

Any help will be appreciated.

Regards

Leon Besaans

leonb asked

0 Answers

Solar not feeding all 3 phases

I have installed a 3 phase system (3x15kVA Quattro) with 8x 250/100 MPPT's.

The system however is not utilising the solar for all 3 phases but only for the red phase which is also the master inverter. I also noticed that the "inverter on" LED is flashing on the master unit while the mains on all 3 units are solid.

Additionally it is keeping the batteries charged at all times although I have the SOC set to 30%. The other 2 phases are pulling the power from the grid.

Any ideas?

muhammed asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

Quattro 10kva 3phase system - Swells and dips over 10%

*****System: Off Grid

3 x Victron Quattro 10kva

1 x Fronius 10kW Symo - 1 x 20kW Symo

18 x Pylontech US 3000

2 x Skylla 48v 50ah AC chargers ( Supplement charge for batteries )

84 x 410w JA Solar Mono half cell


System was installed on new build home. We experienced dipping in the lights. The electrician has done a logger test last week and the results are a bit concerning. Lowest dip recorded was 180v ( 10 - 60 milliseconds), and it regularly dips below 10%, 207v.

Highest swell recorded 257v (10 - 60 milliseconds )

Attached logger data and Victron data ( 1 min intervals )

AMSO 1216 JNF Electrical.pdfHuis Visser Statistics for week 21 May to 28 May 2021.pdf

L1 (Victron) - Phase B (Logger Test)

L2 - Phase C

L3 - Phase A

The underfloor heating runs on Phase C (L2). It switched off on Tuesday morning and technicians are coming in to have a look.

My question is, has anybody experienced a similar situation? Is there a way to minimize the shifting?

Thank you


**********************************************************************************************

Update:

* Results of second test. First 36hrs main DB incoming 3 phase line from Off grid system. Last 36hrs directly on Victron output and termination boxes. (This was done to check that data corresponds and we have no other electrical problem in-between DB and Inverters.)

AMSO 1217 Test 2.pdf

Results are still the same.

*The underfloor heating has been fixed. Unrelated issue

* We have done a firmware Quattro's and N-E bond in the termination boxes. ( This was done before new logger test was done)

* Lights are more stable. Flickering only happens when sun is going down, load increases and the shift happens between Fronius not being able to supply sufficient power and the batteries taking over (100% SOC) I will follow up with Fronius to see if there is a fix for this. ( I have upgraded the Fronius to latest software)

* My question is: The fluctuations are very short in duration 20 - 40 milliseconds. On average we remain on 230V. I do understand being fully of grid will make the voltages fluctuate. Is this in normal parameters? Is there a way to minimize it? Will it have a negative long-term effect on household appliances?

***********************************************************************************************

johanh asked
tozz commented ·

2 Answers

3 phase system with 6000amp shunt issue

Hi Guy,

Just commissioned a 3 phase system using 3 x 24v/5000 quattro and a 6000 amp shunt and 2800 amps of lithium batteries with built in bms units . When the system is charging only we can see a 2000w dc load on the gx device, all batteries and inverters are connected on the shunt properly. Its like one of the chargers is reading on the shunt as a load. What can i check as the system is working perfectly and all batteries are recieving the total charge from the 3 chargers. Their is no dc system load on this install.

[image]

revolution asked
revolution answered ·

2 Answers

MP II drop voltage from 230 to 220v

Hello world

I have a 3 phase DC coupled offgrid installation with 400Ah Battery Bank. one of my inverter is giving 220 V on output with small to no load on this phase where the 2 other give 230.. and it goes on overload everytime


i check the wiring and everything is ok

Thank you for your help

[image]



redsam asked
Alexandra edited ·

2 Answers

Battery is charging - Display shows discharge

I am using a 3 Phase System with a MppT + Smart Shunt + Color Display .


Problem is: Display shows Discharge on Battery, see Pic1, although the only POSSIBLE way for the currrent to go is to charge the Battery. The LEAD Battery is charging per acid reading.

With the settings of the Battery i know for sure that they might be incorrect - standadized settings.

The smart Shunt is polarized correctly - MINUS to System to GND System with 3 Phase System; Minus to Battery to Minus Pole directly on one Pole.


With this setup I already had a correct Current/Charge Reading once; I did however take too much out of battery (battery acid reading showed enough SOC but Display had a lower percentage saved for safety meassures - so battery was in fact still ok to be used - Display did not activate Grid support as it should have - it now does) and the polarization inverted on its own. It went from low percentage to suddenly 100% with negative currentpolarization.

Another issue I face/question I have is that with disconnected Grid and disconnected Load, the only apparent path for the current to take is to charge the Battery. However as you can see in pic 2 the battery still shows a discharge, the Mppt shows correctly positive 5A and positive voltage ( instead of -1A what Color Display shows). Also there are roughly 600W missing in the System ( PV brought a constant of 700W so there is no fluctuation there either.



To summarize my two issues are: Why does my battery charge but is displayed as discharge when Polarization to Battery should be correct

Why am I missing several Hundreds Watts in Display and why does MPPT show a different Current than Color Grid.


All Loadcomponents from System are hooked up on 3Phase system. Nothing else is hooked up inbetween so I am not sending Watts elsewhere undocumented.


Please Help


[image]

[image]

vicvic123 asked
vicvic123 edited ·

0 Answers

Victron Wiring Example - Three Phase Quattro using Freedom Won Lithium Batteries

In this wiring diagram, Victron Energy shows how you can integrate other battery manufacturers lithium batteries into a fully integrated Victron system. This system uses three 48 Volt 5000VA Quattro Inverter Chargers in a three-phase system.

[image]

The diagram shows how Freedom Won Lithium batteries can be connected to a Victron Energy system. There is plenty of documentation on our website for setting up three-phase systems as well as how Freedom Won LiFePO4 Batteries are configured.

Here is a link to the full-sized pdf.


Jono (Victron Energy Staff) asked
leverg answered ·

1 Answer

3 phase asymmetrical system?

I noted from another forum answer by @Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff), that 3 phase asymmetrical systems are an option.

Different numbers of multi's on each phase.

I understand the need for AC and DC cabling symmetry within those confines.

However, when I look at the ESS assistant and the PV assistant the first message that flashes up is that there must be a symmetry of multi and PV inverters.

In an off-grid set-up, if I want an asymmetrical system as far as Multi's go, do I have to forgo the option of AC coupling?

Phil Gavin asked
Phil Gavin commented ·

1 Answer

How to tell why system is dropping grid

The last couple of days my 3 phase multiplus II 5kva system has been deciding around 11am to disconnect from the grid and run off of battery/solar until around 4pm.


I presume the system is upset about grid voltage or something, but I can't actually spot any place inside the Cerbo GX that may indicate what it considers to be the problem.

As far as I can tell, the grid voltage on all phases is less than the overvoltage 10 minute average value configured in ve.config for each multiplus.

daryl asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Split Phase Setup in 3 Phase Network

Dear All,

is it possible to create a Split Phase System connected to a 3 Phase network?

First Multiplus 2 connected with AC in on Phase 2 and second Multiplus 2 connected with AC in to Phase 2. ESS with Feed Back enabled.

AC Out only of first Multiplus for some loads used.

All Neutrals connected like it is needed in manual.


Technically it should work, but is it considered by Victron Energy Software?


Thanks a lot!

dennis asked

0 Answers

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