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Lithium Battery

Cell inbalance

Hi,

I have LiFePO4 battery cells which are all at the following levels -

3.30 - 3.26 - 3.22 - 3.26

could this be genuine imbalance or cell damage?

matt23 asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Lynx Shunt - Battery 50% but empty

Hello,

I have an easysolar system setup within a Narrow boat, 24/3000/70-50, connected to a Lynx Shunt and 6 x 60 Amp Ultramax LiFePO4 batteries. The issue I am having is that the batteries have twice dropped to below 24v, but the system is showing over 50% battery still, both the multiplus and lynx shunt. Edit after response below, the batteries are 24v 60Amp each, so 360Amp total, specification below.

[image]


I was under the impression that using the Lynx Shunt, and Lithum batteries, that the battery percentage would be a lot more reliable, so does anyone have any ideas what I have configured incorrectly here? Charging from 21V yesterday took around 6 hours at 60 amps average, so it seems that it is charging the correct amount, obviously the percentage reach 100% way before the charging was finished.

[image]

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This is the history from the VRM for the shunt.

[image]

This is the voltage for the month,

[image]

And the history for the system.

[image]


I have shared the VRM access, see https://vrm.victronenergy.com/installation/72949/share/b091acc2


Many thanks in advance for any assistance here.

Simon

simon-forester asked
simon-forester edited ·

2 Answers

multiplus frequent rebulk while on shore power

Hi All,

I recently installed MultiPlus 3000 on our boat managing 4 BattleBorn Lithiums.

As I understand from what I have read so far, is that when the lithium battery type is selected, the rebulk offset is set to .2v. So we are floating at 13.6 and rebulk will trigger at 13.4.

The problem seems to be that when we are on the boat while on shore power (and the charger is in float) and using things that create a DC load like the fresh water pump, diesel furnace, electric heads, this offset gets satisfied and triggers a new charge cycle. So we are re-bulking at least once a day, which on a fixed charge profile sends us through the minimum absorption time specified.

Could someone please help me understand:

  • Why is this offset so tight?
  • Is there a minimum dwell time it needs to see the offset voltage for to trigger the rebulk?
  • Can I/should I change this offset? Can I create a new battery profile?
  • It just doesn't seem that this is necessary or good to rebulk-reabsorb frequently.

Thanks!


seank asked
pmikep edited ·

2 Answers

Using LiFePO4 Battery 12,8V/300Ah for a large battery bank

Hello,

I understand for a 48V system the max number of LiFePO4 Battery 12,8V/300Ah is 20 units (4 series by 5 parallel). For a PV system that requires 220kWh in battery bank can can I use multiple sub battery banks of 20 units?

dgmar-ni asked
iand answered ·

2 Answers

My voltage and state if charge are not the same

I have a fronius and victron installation, with charge controller (AC/DC Couple),and lithiumion battery that has no communication protocol with victron , i noticed my voltage is pegged at 54v while charging and the percentage goes from 50% and steady goes to 100% , but immediately the pv inverter go off the battery voltage drops to about 53.2 volts and percentage goes to 25%

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holumiedey asked
holumiedey commented ·

0 Answers

EasySolar12/1600 and LIFEP04 with internal BMS keep tripping RCD

Hi, sorry if already covered but I have a camper van with an Easysolar 12/1600 connected to a lithium battery with internal BMS, the camper has:

hook up

orion 12 | 12 30 from starter battery

270w solar panel

victron bmv 712 Shunt

(UK based)

Any other details needed let me know

When the van is on hook up the battery charges until it gets to 99-100% charged then trips the house RCD. Any help to stop this would be greatly appreciated.

rycreation asked
rycreation commented ·

1 Answer

1560Ah 48v lithium 3-phase quattro 48/15000/200 x3 battery config 82kWh

First, I've read countless articles trying to self resolve my issues. The vast majority seem to be people using very small systems...and my issues seem to be different. Or other people have bluetooth connectivity to their MPTT and I don't...so not sure if I need to get a USB cable and connect, or I can do things online.


Two issues I want to solve.

1.) Low battery alarms are useless. I want them off, but I can't seem to stop them. My battery is at about 44% (46v), and the alarms are configured for 25% and I continually am getting non stop notifications. VictronConnect on my BMV700 I don't think is related to this, and I have alarms disabled on the remote console...so what is sending these alarm emails so I can stop it? Or at least get it to somehow respect what 25% actually is instead of it having some other calculation its doing.


2.) I cannot get the battery settings correct in VictronConnect on my BMV700. I have to keep monitoring the percentage as it keeps getting off a little. Battery capacity is set at 1560Ah which I know to be correct. 13s13p packs with EIG 20aH cells = 260Ah...with 6 of these in parallel = 1560Ah. I've read for Peukert that its effectively close to 1.00 for Lithium...and especially considering how large my capacity is, my batteries never get any stress at all. So I am actually using "1.00" currently. I've been testing that at 1.00 to 1.09 with equally confusing results of not calculating the correct percentage based on voltage. I'm wondering if I need to toy with the capacity value to get one that helps make the SOC follow correctly...


Help or guidance on how to properly set the config so it follows reality on the batteries? Attaching screenshot of the config currently along with battery specs.


[image]

spinkb asked
marekp commented ·

6 Answers

Multiplus charger - Alert "high DC ripple"

Hello,

When I charge a 200Ah lithium battery with a Multiplus 12/500, after a while the charger switches off and the "high DC ripple" alert appears. Could not charge it fully. I took the battery and the Multiplus out of the electrical system to connect them directly to each other, but the problem persists ...
So I imagine the error is either from the battery or from the multiplus?

Have you ever run into this problem? What do you think is the cause?

thanks in advance

abraxas asked
Alexandra commented ·

3 Answers

12:12-30 DC/DC Charger HOT with Lithium

Just swapped out my house battery from AGM to LiFEPO4 battery.

Charger been putting 25amps into Lithium battery (bulk charge) for over an hour from alternator.


DC/DC Charger is too hot to touch!

Is this normal?


barilkobart asked
barilkobart commented ·

1 Answer

How to setup multiples 2 for lithium batteries

First time poster, have a multi plus 2 and 8 12v25Ah lithium ion batteries I would like to set up. How do I change settings. TIA

chang14 asked
mrhappy answered ·

2 Answers

SmartShunt with Lithims. How to go to 100% charge just on battery voltage?

So I have 400A/h of lithium batteries being charged by 4 x Victron SmartSolar MPPT's and monitored by a Smartshunt. The MPPT's get the battery voltage via bluetooth from the SmartShunt, and they all have the following settings:

Absorption voltage 14.2V
Float Voltage 13.5V
Re-bulk voltage offset 0.1V
Absorptionduration Adaptive
Maximum Absorption time 0m
Tail Current Disabled
Temperature Compensation Disabled
Low temperature cut-off 5degreesC

My MPPT's happily all go to float the instant the battery voltage hits 14.2V. Good stuff.

The SmartShunt however doesn't recognise that the battery bank has hit 100%. My SmartShunt settings are:

Battery capacity 400Ah
Charged voltage 14.1V
Discharge floor 10%
Tail Current 4%
Charged Detection Time 1m

What do I need to do to make the SmartShuntconsider the batteries full?


devodave asked
devodave commented ·

4 Answers

Is there any Victron device that allows me to mix LiFeP04 battery sizes?

Hello,


I am dealing with a van upgrade that has a single existing 110 Ah LiFeP04 battery. The system will be upgraded with multiplus, smartsolar mppt, orion, cerbo

The target is to have a 200 Ah battery system and we are currently considering several options.

- Adding one 110 Ah battery. (The state of the current battery os unknown)

- Replacing the system with 2 x 100 Ah batteries (Space is limited and we would like to avoid this solution)

- Replacing the system with 1 x 200 Ah. (Preferred solution so far)


If we go we option 2 or 3, I was wondering if there is any way to re-use the old battery even if amp and size are not the same? Could it somehow be hooked up to the system without reducing the performance of the new battery(ies)?

Thanks

amidships asked
cpt-pat answered ·

2 Answers

Internal vs External BMS pros and cons

Interested in thoughts regarding Victron batteries with external BMS vs integrated BMS batteries like Battle Born or Victron.

Thanks for Steve Mitchell for his detailed information on a Victron system install.

Have a 2001 Beneteau 361 upgrading from the original Xantrex Freedom 20 to a LiFePO4 & Victron system.

What do you 'lose' or 'gain' by going with the integrated BMS batteries (Battle Born) vs the Victron with external BMS?

scfoster asked
cpt-pat edited ·

3 Answers

Limit SOC for longer LiFePO lifetime

Is it possible in some way to limit the maximum SOC of my Pylontech US2000 Batteries wit the Cerbo GX?
The reason for my idea is to longer the lifetime and healt of my batteries by not charging them to 100% in the summer, because I have a very large battery storage, more than 20kWh, and thatswhy it would be enough to charge them to 80% at least.


robtor asked
pmikep answered ·

3 Answers

Has anyone found how to disable "Repeated absorption" with Blue Smart IP22 12 | 30 chargers with Lithium batteries?

I have Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries. They do not require repeated absorption. In fact, unnecessary absorption it is detrimental to all LiFePO4 batteries. Reabsorption is a lead-acid battery requirement to prevent sulfation.

I tried setting repeated absorption to "0" days, and the setting reverted to "1" day. Then I tried "999" days and found the setting reverts to "45" days. Victron forces 45 days as the maximum setting. I could set the absorption voltage to some low value, but then I would have to reconfigure the charger every time I actually wanted to charge to a higher SOC.

Repeated absorption should be set to "disabled" in the "Li-ion" factory profile (caveat: that factory profile is set at 7 days!). This looks to me to be a software oversight.

Suggestion to other users: to prevent these chargers from cooking your lithium batteries, set the tail current (disabled in the profile) to 7.5 amps (the maximum) so the charger at least diminishes the overcharging damage by terminating charging quickly (provided there are no parasite loads) of an already-fully-charged battery.

cpt-pat asked
cpt-pat commented ·

1 Answer

Orion TR Smart and Euro 6 Engines

Hi the collective hive of information.

I am in the middle of commissioning an Orion TR Smart 12/12-30A on a VW T6 Camper van. The system doesn't seem to be triggering that often, and even after a couple of hours driving the Lithium batteries are not full.

All default settings have been used, but the start battery is regularly at 12.3-12.5v.

Are the default settings too aggressive, do they need to be dropped. If so any recomendations. I have done various searches and running second battery charging with Euro 6 engines seems to be a dark art with little information about what a good set of settings should be.

My instincts as opposed to science or knowledge is to:

Drop Input Voltage Lockout to be 12.1v / 12.3v. After starting the engine and idling the starter battery is regularly at 12.2v, so restarting shouldn't be an issue at 12.1v.

Setting Start Voltage to 13.2v

Setting Delayed start to 12.8v

Setting shutdown voltage to 12.7v

Any guidance, are these values too low?

Many Thanks


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bathnm asked
pau1phi11ips commented ·

0 Answers

How does this not ruin a Start Battery?

In this design example, a Sterling DC to DC converter is used to charge a lithium house bank with the Start battery as the "Source". So for example, if we are charging the Lithium Bank at 60Amps over 3hrs, how is this justified when a Start battery is not designed to provide high current over a long period of time?


[image]


ve-user asked
pau1phi11ips edited ·

3 Answers

Orion-Tr Smart, VE.Direct and integration with GX devices?

Hey there, as I commented on the blog post,

"I'm curious if future versions will have VE.Direct or some sort of integration like that with GX devices? Currently, it seems that the MPPT and MultiPlus are able to coordinate their total charge rate with external BMS via the GX devices. But it seems that the Orion-Tr does not participate in this?"

I'm wondering if there's a way to integrate the Orion-Tr Smart chargers with the CCGX. In particular, as far as I understand, GX devices can coordinate with external BMS via CANBus to determine the charging parameters of a battery. It seems that the Victron MPPT and Victron MultiPlus can respect these limits via VE.Direct and VE.Bus respectively, which is great and a big reason why I bought this BMS and the suite of Victron product.

Now I'm considering purchasing Orion-Tr Smart chargers, however I noticed that they don't have any VE.Direct connectivity, or any other VE connectivity aside from the Bluetooth one. Is something like VE.Direct, VE.Bus or VE.Can planned? Will Orion-Tr Smart chargers integrate with GX devices?

aybabtme asked
mvader (Victron Energy) commented ·

14 Answers

Lithium SuperPack drop-in replacement feasibility

Hi, I've been reading though all the posted questions but can't find a clear answer.

I'm considering replacing the current AGM house bank on my boat with SuperPack batteries, and I'm trying to understand what it would involve.

Below an attempt to visualize my current setup:

[image]


I understand that I'll have to replace the shore charger for a Lithium one, but beyond that, is there anything else I would have to replace/modify, or will the SmartPacks be a simple "drop-in" replacement?

My main doubt is:

Since the BMS is integrated, what will happen if the batteries are fully charged and the engine/alternator is running? Is there a risk the BMS will trigger the over-charge protection and disconnect all the loads (e.g. loosing plotter and instruments when approaching an anchorage/marina)


Any other suggestion/input is highly appreciated, like: does the Argo Fet still make sense with the SuperPack, or should I replace it with an Orion-Tr DC-DC charger? Do I need a separate external BMS to protect the batteries from overcharging?

Thank you!

badrock asked

0 Answers

HELP! Multiplus Still Charging Lithium Below 5C

I have a Multiplus 3000 which is set up for LiFePo4 batteries and has a temperature sensor connected. My LiFePo4 batteries have a BMS, but it does not have low temperature cut-off.


This morning, my battery temperature was nearly 0C and the Multiplus was charging.


Did I miss a setting somewhere or was the information I was given incorrect and there is no low-temperature cut-off protection in the Multiplus for LiFePo4 batteries?


I was lead to believe that in LiFePo4 mode, the Multiplus would not charge if the temperature is below 5C.

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Example of my batteries charging at below 5C.

[image]



My VE Configure Settings:

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kafolske asked
Dosheimer answered ·

2 Answers

VE.Bus BMS Mains Detector - when is it really needed?

Hi guys,


I have upgraded an exiting system with 2xLiFePo4 12V/100Ah, Phoenix Smart Charger 30A, and VE.Bus BMS by replacing a the Smart Charger with Multiplus 12/1600/70.


Because the existing system was wired without the VE.Bus BMS mains detector, and because the main detector can apparently be purchased only as part of full VE.Bus BMS package, I am trying to understand what exactly are the cases where the mains detector is needed.


From the VE.BMS and Multiplus documentation I understood that when the BMS disconnects the battery, and disables the Multiplus due to low voltage alarm, the charging will not restart automatically when AC is plugged in.


Yet when I tested this now twice, by slowly discharging the batteries until BMS disconnects them, and then plugging in the external AC, the Multiplus always started charging after several seconds automatically.


Could you please elaborate what exactly is the mains detector for? And whether I really must install it and buy a new VE.Bus BMS package?


Or alternatively, anybody who has one lying around for sale?


thanks,

Martin

enodev asked
enodev edited ·

1 Answer

Why is disabling the Lithium Smart batteries Bluetooth Connection permanent?

Catching up on reading and come across this in Help for Victron Connect. Anyone know why it is irreversible?


Lithium Smart batteries

The product page can be found here.
Once Bluetooth is disabled, it is disabled permanently and is irreversible. This means that VictronConnect will ask for a confirmation code displayed in the dialogue; if you are sure that you want to permanently disable Bluetooth, enter the code displayed and choose “Ok”.

alland asked
rianling answered ·

2 Answers

Converting A Car from Lead acid to Lithium

I want to convert to a Lifepo4 or a LTO battery. What mods to I need to make to the alternator charging system to limit charge current and prevent the alternator from self destruction when not connected to battery?

toddbailey asked
Alexandra commented ·

0 Answers

Catamaran without generator possible? ORION-TR a solution?

Hello,

on my catamaran I would like to get rid of the generator.

I will intall 2000W of solar, 1200 AH LiFePo4 batteries and two MultiPlus 3000 in parallel. But this is not sufficient for two reasons:

1) redundancy

2) weather impact (no sun)

As a backup I would like to be able to charge my batteries FAST!! with the two 57 HP Yanmar diesel engines. How do I do that?

Thank you + kind regards,

Peter

phe asked
michael859 answered ·

6 Answers

Connecting to 120 shore power trips breaker

Have a Multiplus 12/120/3000 with 4-100 amp hour Lithium batteries in series installed in our fifth wheel trailer. Everything has been working great and as it should, but I recently tried to plugin to a standard 120 wall outlet just to trickle charge the batteries while parked in a friends driveway and it would trip the breaker. I tried turning off everything via my breaker panel in my trailer that wasn't necessary to see if it was a load issue...still trips. I also played around with the current limiter settings on my victron digital multi control...nothing made a difference. Multi control was set to charger only. Has anyone else had any issues like this? Maybe something else I can look into to try. Please advise? Thank you in advance :)

shabrown1 asked
joelflorek commented ·

1 Answer

Lithium vs solar-charger/inverter/charger

Is a list available wat type solar-charger/inverter/charger is available/programmable for lithium batteries ? (CC/CV)


rookie asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Sailing yacht conversion to LiFePo4

I’m trying to finalise the brainstorming and diagram to convert our sailing yacht from lead acid to LiFePo4, I‘ve used one of Victron schematics to help me visualise the system and understand how things are connected before embarking on this journey but I need some assistance and all the so called marine electricians we’ve found so far are hopeless and don’t even seem to be aware of the standards for connecting batteries (I tested them with a few questions and their answers are literally text book Victron wiring unlimited the what not to do section). So I need help.


Existing system and equipments:

  • 12v
  • Multiplus 12/3000/230 50hz 16A
  • MPPT 150/100 - TR
  • Colour control
  • BMV 712
  • "dumb"110A alternator
  • Battery isolator
  • 3x390watts LG bifacial solar panels
  • engine start battery Victron AGM 12-165


Questions:

  1. Does the Orion DC to DC protect my "dumb" alternator from overcharge/burnout by the LiFePo4 demands? Thinking on limiting the charge to 30A / 1Orion unit but possibly add a second unit later. The main source of power will be the solar system.
  2. currently the Multiplus is connected with 2x50sqm cables of same length and under 5m, each cable with a 200A fuse and a 300A switch (one of those big red ones on the diagram below). Is this ok or we should really wire it like in this diagram with one 400A fuse then a switch and then the 2 cables?
  3. cannot find the Cyrix Li Charge 230 for sale anywhere. As this product been discontinued? What’s the alternative?
  4. what size fuses are recommended for the locations I’ve marked?
  5. Can we use the Victron super packs or is it better the Victron lithium smart? We do run some high loads so I’m worried about the limitations of 70A maximum discharge current and maximum charge current of the super packs. Our solar system can deliver up to 98A. (I’m assuming that if I have 2 batteries with a 70A maximum discharge current each it means I actually have a total of around 140A maximum discharge current on my bank, please correct if I’m wrong its quite important)

Thanks

[image]


sv-the-dream asked
sv-the-dream commented ·

2 Answers

48Volt 100Ah BLSBatt Max Discharge setting

I have a question regarding changing parameters on a BSLBatt. I installed the 100Ah battery and upon commissioning it via a Cerbo I saw that the Max DC Discharge Current setting for the Battery as displayed via the Cerbo, is 105A. Both the Victron/BSLBatt setup manual and the battery specs indicate that that setting should be around 150-160 Amps DC (30A AC equivalent). My problem is I have one 2kw electric motor that trips the battery due to overload. (The machine has a slow start due to how it works - it is a big bandsaw).

My questions are
1- Am I correct in saying that parameter is set wrong in the battery?
2 - Is there a way I can change that setting myself via software or must it go back to the local agents for correction ?
3 - Can a support person do it online via Cerbo or Teams?

Lourens asked
Lourens answered ·

1 Answer

Looking for Victron SmartSolar settings for LiFePO4 to limit SoC to 90%

tl;dr - I have a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/50, a DIY 280Ah 12V LiFePO4 battery, and 450W of solar panels on my camping trailer, which gets used sporadically. My battery cell manufacturer (CATL) recommends keeping the battery SoC between 10% and 90% in order to extend the battery life. I've been fiddling with the Victron settings, but right now I'm finding it difficult to keep the controller from (over)charging the battery. Ideally I want bulk to charge as fast as possible at ~14.4V until I hit ~90% (when the SCC should switch from constant current to constant voltage) and then kick right over to float, but it seems like my SCC wants to charge my battery to 100% (or a bit more) regardless of what settings I use. Looking for advice on how to configure this correctly... more details about my setup below:

My camping trailer gets used one or two weekends per month, and then typically once or twice per summer for 2-3 weeks straight. Between those times it sits unused, and the typical parasitic draw of the BMS, SCC, SOC meter (Simarine Pico), propane leak detector, and radio is <100mA, which results in 1-2A of usage, if that.

When I use the trailer, our typical consumption is between 20A and 50A per day, depending on the weather and location. Sometimes we get full sun the next day and can recharge, but other times we'll go 4-5 days before we get any significant sun. In the latter case I've drained the battery to ~65% SoC before, which means the next day I travel I need to add at least 70A back to get to 90%.

With my older Renogy Rover Elite SCC I found higher voltage settings significantly increase the charging current during bulk mode... to the point that if I set to 13.6V I might get a 1-2A bulk charge rate on a battery with an SoC of ~70% but at 14.4V the SCC was pushing 17A.

With the Victron I have NOT yet had a chance to drain my battery down to ~70% to see the result (planning to do this over Labor Day), but I have noticed that even when the BMS and SOC meter think the battery is 99%+ charged in the morning the Victron SCC will kick over into bulk mode and run that way for 6-8 hours before kicking into float. That makes no sense to me.


My BMS is set up for my CATL battery manufacturer recommendations:
low cut-off: 2.5V/cell (10.0V)
high cut-off: 3.65V/cell (13.6V)
balance: on
balance starts at: 3.4V/cell (13.6V)


Presently my Victron settings are:
absorption: 13.7V <- barely above cell balance voltage)
float: 13.2V <- intentionally below resting state of ~13.3V
equalization: disabled
re-bulk voltage offset: 0.10V
absorption duration: adaptive
max absorption time: 0 hours
tail current: N/A


Note that my LiFePO4 battery's resting state is about 13.3V. My goal with 13.2V float is that the battery does NOT get charged, but the SCC will power any parasitic devices. I think that's working ok.

Also note I've set absorption to 13.7V since that *seems* to affect the bulk->absorption algorithm and I'm trying to prevent the SCC from continually charging a full battery right now, but ideally I want bulk to charge as fast as possible at ~14.4V until I hit ~90% (when the SCC should switch from constant current to constant voltage) and then kick right over to float.

Right now my Victron SCC seems to run in bulk mode pushing 1-2A for 6-8 hours, then goes into float. That seems wrong since I'm starting the day at >99% SoC with 278Ah in a 280ah battery (and TBH I'm not really clear if there's any "damage" being done by trickling current to a full LFP battery). It also seems wrong because at 99% I should be well above the point where the SCC can apply constant current... so in the morning right now (when basically idle) I'd expect the SCC to go right into float mode (or rather to go into bulk for a few seconds, then recognize we're at or above the CC->CV point and switch to absorption for 0 seconds, then go to float).

So as I said in the first paragraph, ideally I'd like a way to bulk charge quickly if (and only if) SoC is below ~90%, then kick over to float when I hit ~90% SoC. Otherwise I just want to float at a low voltage. Any help from those who have done this, or who understand the bulk charging profile better and can explain why this doesn't happen for me (at least when the battery starts off full in the morning)

Thanks


geoff-silver asked
geoff-silver commented ·

3 Answers

BMS Options VE.Bus vs Lynx Smart

Hello All,

I'm designing a system for a marine application using two or three 200Ah Victron Smart batteries. I have a MultiPlus II Inverter/Charger, two Smart Solar controllers and a variety of low amp DC loads. From the research I've done, it seems the best options are the VE.BUS BMS or the Lynx Smart BMS. The Smart 12/200 was a contender but the 200A current limit took it off the list. That said, the Lynx looks to be the best, comprehensive solution but the price is also very high.

Can you please tell me what other components I will need with the VE.BUS BMS? I read I will need a battery protect for the DC loads but what about the charging side? How will the BMS shut down the solar chargers or the Multi one the cells are at the max level? I also save the CerboGX installed, can this be used for this function or do I need additional hardware? Thank you !

cpurchas asked

0 Answers

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