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Cause of total system shutdown???
Looking for answers on what could be the issue with our Victron system...(3x 200Ah "Smart" lithium batts with Victron BMS, BatteryProtect, BMV and Color GX monitors, Quattro inverter/charger, MPPT controllers, etc.....all Victron).
A couple of weeks ago, we were hit by a heavy squall, with 35-40kn true wind on the nose, in large confused seas. The autopilot, an NKE driving an L&S hydraulic ram was struggling with the excessive weather helm. Just as we were preparing to put in a 3rd reef, the entire boat "went dark" without warning. No autopilot, instruments, gps, radio comms, or lights.....all 12v circuits on the boat were dead! And just as we really wanted the autopilot to keep driving as we tucked in another reef. The boat was on her ear, (we later found seaweed draped over the leeward lifeline!!!). As we struggled to regain control, all of a sudden the boat "lit up".....all 12 volt circuits started up again!!! YEE HAH!!! we did a quick happy dance!!! But our happiness was short lived, as the cycle of off/on happened 3 more times over the next hour or so. Visibility was very poor, as the rain got heavier. We started the motor (it has a dedicated starter battery) and dropped the mainsail for the last bit of the overflows. At last we rounded the Mull of Galloway and gladly headed north. Conditions have been comparitively mild since then, and the problem has not recurred.
So what happened to our electrical system? After all, having the boat shut down like that at the wrong time could be disastrous. Had this occurred at night, in shipping lanes, ships tracking us on AIS or visually by our lights would not have known we were out there. And similarly, we would have been "blind" without radar or AIS to spot ships. While we still have no definitive answer, at this point all signs point to the Battery Management System (BMS) of the lithium battery installation. It's the only thing which would shut off all of the loads like this. The job of the BMS is obviously to protect the batteries, and will shut down all loads on the system if it senses low overall system battery voltage, overheating of the batteries, or cell imbalance between individual cells in the batteries.
According to the installing electrician/dealer, he feels that the system was "operating normally"!!! That given the struggle of the autopilot in these wind/sea conditions, it is possible that the demands on the battery bank MAY have caused a cell imbalance which caused the BMS to shutdown, even though the overall battery voltage was fine (we'd been charging while hooked to shore power for 3 days so had been 100% only 2 hours earlier).
I am having a hard time thinking of this as "normal operation". Normal operation of critical systems cannot simply shut down without warning, or the system is not suited for purpose!!!!! And also that a cell imbalance could have been brought on by excessive load on the batts. (the autopilot only requires a 30 amp breaker....at 12v, that's just 360 watts, .05c, far less than the load imposed by an induction hob or microwave which we often use for longer periods through the inverter without effect.). While of course I was a bit too busy to check the individual cell voltages with VictronConnect during the shut down, whenever I check the voltages at other times, the 12 cells are all within .01 volt of one another. Any ideas of what could have caused this shut down (it has not happened since)??? And what could prevent it in the future? I am thinking of installing a battery switch in parallel with the terminals of the BatteryProtect relay, normally kept open, in case of another emergency shutdown, though I have been advised that it's use could void the warranty! Any suggestions are welcome!

svbravo asked
2hulls answered ·

4 Answers

VE.Bus BMS and Multiplus, remote switch off off Multiplus

Good afternoon,

Is there any configuration or assistant that can be applied that will allow for a remote switch off of the MultiPlus when used with the VE.Bus BMS and Cerbo GX. I know that in this configuration a DMC will allow this to happen, but I really do not want yet another panel to install (cost and space). I had hopped that a switch between the Left and Middle pins of the remote switch on the main board would work, but no luck. I am sure at some stage the ability to turn the inverter on and off through the Cerbo will be available, just as it is when no VE.Bus BMS is used.

My reason for asking is that when I leave the boat the MultiPlus, even with AES applied has been the biggest parasitic load causing a drain of 158Ah in just a week. Having turned the Multiplus off at the switch on the front the parasitic load has dropped to just under 0.2A. With the Multiplus on and in ~AES Search mode the system was drawing between .4A and .8A, occasionally going as high as 1.2A.

OK, I know I can turn the inverter off on the front panel, but that is a pain due to it's location.

bathnm asked
cpurchas commented ·

6 Answers

controlling Victron MultiPlus 12 / 3000 / 120 with REC ABMS + Cerbo

as per the title i am trying to configure a Rec ABMS with VE CAN to control the allowed to charge / allowed to discharge settings of the Multi.

I have tried adding the VE bus BMS assistant but this give me a flashing low battery light on the Multi.

i have the ABMS working as a battery monitor in the Cerbo but the Multi is not seeming to be working with it.

is there something I am missing is this a supported function to control via VE CAN or do i need to use 2 wire BMS and wire the relays

nfluester asked
jw1971 answered ·

4 Answers

VE.Bus BMS Mains Detector - when is it really needed?

Hi guys,


I have upgraded an exiting system with 2xLiFePo4 12V/100Ah, Phoenix Smart Charger 30A, and VE.Bus BMS by replacing a the Smart Charger with Multiplus 12/1600/70.


Because the existing system was wired without the VE.Bus BMS mains detector, and because the main detector can apparently be purchased only as part of full VE.Bus BMS package, I am trying to understand what exactly are the cases where the mains detector is needed.


From the VE.BMS and Multiplus documentation I understood that when the BMS disconnects the battery, and disables the Multiplus due to low voltage alarm, the charging will not restart automatically when AC is plugged in.


Yet when I tested this now twice, by slowly discharging the batteries until BMS disconnects them, and then plugging in the external AC, the Multiplus always started charging after several seconds automatically.


Could you please elaborate what exactly is the mains detector for? And whether I really must install it and buy a new VE.Bus BMS package?


Or alternatively, anybody who has one lying around for sale?


thanks,

Martin

enodev asked
enodev edited ·

1 Answer

Multiplus charging following BMS low cell voltage with CCGX powered by BMS load disconnect pin

Hi I'm using a 3kVA Multiplus with an inverter generator attached to AC input, smart lithium batteries, BMS, MPPT 100/50 and the BMV712. I would like to tie everything into the CCGX.

The CCGX manual suggests powering the CCGX from the load disconnect pin of the BMS.

Assuming I do that, and the BMS senses a low cell voltage, the CCGX will be disabled and the inverter will be disabled.

From the CCGX manual I understand the deadlock that can arise in this case

My question is, when low cell voltage is triggered by the BMS with a CCGX connected to the Multiplus over VE.Bus, if AC is applied to the AC input of the multiplus, will the VE.Bus AC detection module connected to the Multiplus enable the Multiplus to charge the batteries?

This is the section in the manual I am referring to:

When the CCGX is used in an installation with a VE.Bus BMS, connect the Power in V+ on the CCGX to the terminal labelled 'Load disconnect' on the VE.Bus BMS. Connect both negative leads to the negative stub of a common Battery.

A Cautionary word about Powering from the AC-out terminal of a VE.Bus Inverter, Multi or Quattro:

If you power the CCGX from an AC adaptor connected to the AC-out port of any VE.Bus product (Inverter, Multi or Quattro), then a deadlock will occur after the VE.Bus products are powered-down for any reason (after any operational fault or during a black start). The VE.Bus devices will not boot-up until the CCGX has power ...but the CCGX will not boot-up until it has power. This deadlock can be rectified by briefly unplugging the CCGX VE.Bus cable at which point you will observe the VE.Bus products will immediately begin to boot-up.

Thank you




abegweit asked

0 Answers

VE Lithium Battery Bank, Which BMS to Use?

Hi All,


I appreciate that this question may come down to preference, but I would greatly appreciate anyone's input on this if possible. My dad and I are currently installing the VE setup I've purchased for my liveaboard, which includes:

3 x 100ah Lifepo4 batteries

1 x Multiplus 12/3000/120

1 x BMS 12/200

1 x BMV 712 shunt

2 x Power In Bus bars

1 x Cerbo GX & Monitor

1 x Standard 105ah lead acid starter battery

70amp alternator


The Victron setup above was recommended to us by the agent who I purchased it from. Since then we have done a good bit of research on the Victron setup, and we are now questioning whether the BMS 12/200 is the best option for our setup... Would anyone recommend the Smart BMS CL 12/100 and or the VE.Bus BMS along with the Cyrix Li Ct?

The Smart BMS does not appear to limit the current draw of the house batteries which the BMS 12/200 does appear to do. The Smart BMS also appears to offer better protection to the starter battery..


Can anyone weigh in on their experience or opinion of these BMS options?


Cheers, David

daveybdublin asked
hoeken answered ·

5 Answers

Dvcc - bms charge disconnect - alternator

Hi does anyone know if enabling dvcc on the cerbo gx disables the charge disconnect function on the ve.bus bms connected to victron li batteries. The bms charge disconnect switches off my alternator.

gertjand asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

Wiring Orion Isolated DC-DC remote cable to VE bus BMS

I have two questions regarding wiring of the Orion TR Smart Isolated remote cable. I want to connect the Orion TR Isolated DC-DC charger towards the VE Bus BMS (black and Yellow cable). Can I connect the black ground cable towards the VE-BUS battery - (while grounding of the VE-BUS BMS is arranged via the VE-BUS RJ45 cable, a grounding loop should be avoided?). Question 2: There is no picture of the VE-BUS BMS where to wire the yellow cable (only the mini BMS is shown), I presume that I should connect towards the Charge disconnect (mentioned in the standard picture is "Charger" on the mini-BMS)?

mberg asked
mberg edited ·

0 Answers

BatteryProtect needed with smart LifePO4 battery?

Is the BatteryProtect needed/useful with the smart LifePO4 battery?

Does the battery itself stop sending current when its voltage is too low?

The battery itself has an "Allowed-To-Discharge cell voltage" setting, the manual says "As soon as one of the cells reaches this voltage, the BMS will disable all loads by sending a signal to the load or to the load disconnection device.".

I don't understand if the battery is smart enough to stop sending power to devices once that voltage is reached, or it (and the VE.Bus BMS) needs a "load disconnection device" that acts like a switch between the battery and the load.

A standard load wouldn't care about a stop signal, unless that signal was a complete lack of current.

I often see the BatteryProtect in schematics but it seems the battery with the (VE.BUS BMS which is directly recommended) may already be equipped to protect against under/over voltage.

trougnouf asked
drlbradley edited ·

3 Answers

Inverter/Charger Setup - Moving from VE.Bus BMS to Smart BMS 12/100

Hello! My current setup is using a VE.Bus BMS and my MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80 was configured to that. I remember I had to install an assistant for the VE.Bus BMS. I wonder what I'll need to do now. Should I uninstall the assistant? Do I need to do something at all? Thanks!

georgeleonardo asked
georgeleonardo commented ·

3 Answers

Which BMS for my van system?

Hi all


Currently designing my install for a VW Transporter. I'm a novice when it comes to this, but love to learn as I go. The diagram is what I have so far, a work in progress.


My question at this point is. Do I need the VE Bus BMS when using the Multiplus or will the Smart Shunt be sufficient?

I don't need any external displays and I'm happy to control things via the phone app. Also, I'm aware I'll need a bigger battery for the 12/1200 Multiplus, and I haven't placed some of the fuses I'll need in the diagram yet.


Any input is greatly appreciated!

[image]

imthebatman asked
Kevin Windrem commented ·

3 Answers

Smart BMS Cl 12/100 Multiplus Compatibility

Hi there

I note in the manual for the Smart BMS Cl 12/100 that the Multiplus 3kva must be of 'recent type' with auxillary inputs. I bought my Multiplus 12/3000/120 about 6 months ago. Can anyone tell me if this version is compatible, picture below of the inputs on my unit.


Thanks


[image]


daveybdublin asked
daveybdublin commented ·

2 Answers

Multiple devices not communicating on VE bus network

I have a new 1600ah lithium installation. It has a multiplus 24/5000, multiplus 24/4000 and a Phoenix inverter. I cannot get them all to work/communicate with each other over the BMS VE. Bus network. I have updated all the firmware and changed all devices to BMS assist

Adam Robb asked
Adam Robb commented ·

1 Answer

MPPT SmartSolar and Orion-TR Smart charge disconnect

As the title says, I have a SmartSolar MPPT Charger and a VE.Bus BMS, to which I have just added a Smart Orion-TR Non-Isolated Charger. I currently already have a VE.Direct non inverting remote on-off cable to connect the BMS charge disconnect output to the MPPT VE.Direct interface. Now I want to also control the Orion-TR via the BMS charge disconnect.

Can the digital charge disconnect output of the VE.Bus BMS drive both the input of the Orion-TR remote on/off and the input of VE-Direct non-inverting cable module? In other words, can I leave the non-inverting remote on/off cable plugged into the BMS and simply add a wire from the BMS to the Orion?



robertsonics asked
Stefanie commented ·

1 Answer

victron configure 3 error wont load my system settings not enough information...

Hi,

My system is in a motorhome, quattro , connected using a ccgx and 2 lithium smart batteries , with theVictron VE bus BMS

I have updated my quattro to the lastest firmware using my mk3 usk and android phone and victron connect app.(so i can access setting on the move if required)

This re sets the inverters settings so i needed to re-do them. I did what i could using the connect app.

I can do all the settings via the app except assistants.

So my CCGX is showing No BMS ERROR

I need to run the BMS assistent for my VICTRON smart Lithium batteries. This is by default not loaded so i went onto my Victron VRM portal , downloaded the Quattro settings as normal but VE confgure will not open the file giving the following error


The file does not contain all required information. (file probably created with an older version of the Venus.OS)


Everything is up-to date.. Ve config 3 , the CCGX and the Quattro But i need to bms assistant to be running and if i can't open vic config 3 i cant add the assistant.

I tried uploading my old saved file but the CCGX / Quattro wouldnt accept it ,

Is there something i am missing should i be downloading the inverter settings via the vrm with the bms or batteries discconnected? or is the fact that i updated the inverter settings via the connect app mean i now have no access via ve config 3 ?


Your help would be appreciated.

JAY


jaywolfe asked
rhillebrand commented ·

3 Answers

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