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Smartshunt DC energy meter for case grounded alternator

I have a Smartshunt ready to install as a DC energy meter on my boats domestic alternator, but this has the negative via the grounded case and engine. I also have a separate engine battery and alternator but they share the common negative return via the engine. This will add to the existing BMV702 on the domestic batteries. I have seen many comments that in this case, you need to have a shunt in the positive cable.

Thinking about this, I believe that I can wire it up in the negative cabling per the attached sketch. The negative return from both alternators splits at the new Smartshunt to separate out the current from the two alternators so it will only measure the domestic alternator. In the existing wiring, the alternator negative, the ground and the engine battery -ve all connect to the -ve bus and this works OK with the BMV. The boat is steel hulled and it is not used for any negative returns, everything is fully wired to the -ve buses.

The sketch ignores fusing, isolation switches, minor wiring to the shunts.

Am I missing something in my wiring layout.

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pwfarnell asked

0 Answers

Smart BMS CL 12/100- Persistent A-B11: Under voltage Error

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Purchased recently a Smart BMS CL 12/100 and connected to boats Lead acid start battery and LiFePo4 service battery. Configured it to use 60A current limit by using 60A fuse, and setting the same in Victron Connect App. But it seems to be a persistent error message I’m not able to clear no matter what I do. Tried “Facory reset”, use “Mode switch” to turn OFF and then ON again, but to no success. Voltages seems to be correct, but no charging of Lithium battery from the alternator, see screenshots attached. Could it be a configuration issue, or something else?

fredivar asked
Stefanie commented ·

4 Answers

Charging lithium whit alternator

Hallo

Im looking a way to ad one more altenator to charge a 10x 200AH 24V bank.

My goal is to get at least 120A on 24 V from it, but cant find a curent limiter or dc-dc charger so big that it will do the job.

I dont want puting 20 of orions for that 2 altenators ( 2 engines), so im looking for single device it can do that.

Money is not a problem, just to have some simpliest and solid solution.

Any advice will be good.

P.s. there is 2 banks of agm motor battery for preventing a spikes if bms cut of servis.

neki asked
pwfarnell commented ·

2 Answers

Alternator and DC to DC charger

Hi

Is it possible to connect an Orion TR Smart DC to DC charger directly to an alternator and then to a lithium battery bank in a boat?

I do know that the often recommended solution is to connect via the start battery and/or installing an external regulator.

So those suggestions and other suggestions as to why I want this solution is not relevant.

I only would like to know if it is possible or not. If not, why?

I have tried to reach out to several Victron distributors, seen several online videos (reputable like Jeff Cote) and in particular the online webinar from Victron 22 Jan 2021.

In the latter there is a drawing (at 19:45) that indicates that it is possible, but the voice-over is not fully clear to med.

Hope someone could help, much appreciated!


Best regards

Kai

klohre asked
klohre answered ·

2 Answers

Connecting a LiFePO4 bank to house & alternator

I am preparing to connect a Battleborn 600ah 12v battery bank to house power on board a powerboat. I'm wondering if any precautions need to be taken before I do that?

The house circuit is charged by shore power (Victron Multiplus 3000) or an alternator on the Starboard engine. That starboard alternator powers the 12V DC house circuit when the engine is running. It's the same circuit the lithium batteries would be directly connected to. I'm concerned about connecting the lithium batteries directly to the same circuit with the alternator.

Am I right to pause? Or is this perfectly normal?

Is there something I need from Victron to safeguard the lithium battery bank from any spikes or noise from the alternator?

Note - the port engine alternator is connected to the engine start bank (8D flooded). I'm not considering this port engine alternator as part of the 12V DC house circuit.

This is a 1989 alternator on a 400hp diesel.


-- Edit following replies:

Thanks guys - thanks for your patience and the responses are great. I'm continuing to research.

One clarification - Both engines start with the engine batteries. The port engine alternator charges the engine battery. The starboard engine alternator is not connected to the engine battery. (I'm simplifying this - there is a crossover switch to connect the house + engine banks in case of an emergency - which adds consideration as well as potential dangers. But let's continue to ignore crossover to keep this topic simple.)

One other thing I'm not yet clear on: The Lithium house bank is going to be directly connected to the house DC so it can power 12v electronics at all times. Typically, the entire house circuit will always be "hot" from the lithium source. Lights, radio, AIS, pumps, navigation, etc are all on the house DC circuit.

The starboard alternator is also directly connected to the house DC so it can power all of the above - at all times when the engine is running. Which is interesting because at this time the lithium and alternator are connected as voltage sources to the same circuit.

I've uploaded a crappy drawing to help illustrate:

[image]

If I install the Orion in between the Starboard alternator and the house bus.. would that resolve the problem? But the Orion would also be between the entire house load and the alternator too.

infy asked
brando answered ·

4 Answers

wiring victron argodiode to Nippon-Denso
I need to know how to connect the argodiode to the Nippon-Denso alternator in the picture.

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jonnyulix asked

0 Answers

Smart BMS CL not charging

We have the same issue with multiple Smart BMS CL: They are not letting significant charge to the Lithium batteries even though the alternator is running at high speeds.
Screenshot attached - we have a 100A alternator, engine running at 2000rpm, the device shows 5% load and no significant current flows towards the battery. We had the same / similar issues on multiple boats and caravans.

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Any idea what the reason could be? It can not really be linked to the batteries - we have tried bridging the M8 connectors with a BMS cable, still the same behavior..

mik asked
mik edited ·

0 Answers

Single Lithium Starter/Deep Cycle Battery with Outboard Motor

I'm having a hard time putting together all the info I've been reading on this topic. My boat has an outboard motor with an 18 amp/226 watt alternator. I'd like to run a single 12v lithium dual purpose battery (starting and deep cycle) because my current lead acid battery won't last a whole day of fishing due to the draw my electronics and livewell pump require. My trolling motor is on an isolated 24v system.

I'm trying to understand how to protect the alternator from overheating (due to over current) and from blowing up (due to overcharge cutoff).

Can anyone help?

tjbuggy2b asked

0 Answers

Can CerboGX gen start/stop relay work with SolidSwitch104?

On a boat, can I wire the gen start/stop relay on the CerboGX to a SolidSwitch104, which will be connected to the ignition wire on my Balmar voltage regulator?

The way I understand it, this is possible by connecting a 12v source to COM and then run a wire from NO to the SolidSwitch. And so I program the gen start/stop relay to go on at 30 SOC% and off at 75 SOC%, for example, should close the circuit, activating the SolidSwitch (and therefore closing the circuit on the ignition wire). When SOC% reaches the set value, the relay returns to NO state (opens again) and this de-activates the SolidSwitch (thus, stopping the alternator).

Is this right?

Thanks in advance!


jordanb asked

0 Answers

Orion-Tr Smart DC/DC control and grounding clarification

Hi,

I am building a 24V setup very similar to the victron van install (https://community.victronenergy.com/articles/15035/victron-vw-van-electrics-install-schematic-drawing.html) on a old Mercedes Benz truck (no smart alternator).

Instead of the Buck Boost, I will use the new Orion-Tr Smart 24/24-17A (400W) Isolated DC-DC charger behind a Battery Protect.

My negative bus bar and the enclosure of the MultiPlus are grounded to the chassis using 4mm2 wire.

The manual of the Orion-Tr Smart (https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Orion-Tr-Smart-Charger-Isolated-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-IT.pdf) states on page 4:

"Remote on-off
Use the remote function to enable and disable the converter remotely with the remote on/off connector or using the
VictronConnect app. Typical use cases include a user operated
hard wired switch and automatic control by for example a Battery
Management System. If the minus of the service battery is not at
the same potential as the minus of the alternator or starter battery
an isolated remote on/off cable between the BMS and the on/off
port is required, see chapter 4.4 for details.
"

This should not be the case in a vehicle, but the on page 10, Figure 4:

[image]

there is an isolated remote on/off cable shown.

So here are my questions:

  • Is it correct to ground the negative bus bar and the enclosure of the MultiPlus to the vehicle?
  • Is it necessary to also ground the enclosures of the MPPT, the Orion etc. in such a setup?
  • Basically, I want to use the automatic "engine running" detection mechanism of the Orion-Tr to enable it. In case the VE.Bus BMS triggers the charge disconnect, the BatteryProtect on the charge side disconnects the Orion-Tr to protect the batteries. The question now is, if I also need to deactivate the Orion-Tr to protect it from beeing damaged, like with a MPPT? How would I do this? I have a "Non inverting remote on-off cable, ASS030550200" in my hands. It does not look like the one used in the diagram, it only has three cables (red, black, yellow).


Thanks!

kiko asked
Rod answered ·

1 Answer

Outboard alternator charging lithium

Question

To charge a 12V LiFePO4 from an outboard alternator charging coil, what product is suitable to regulate the charging?

System Components

Outboard: Manual start, Honda BF6, 12V 6A charging coil
Battery: Lithium (LiFePO4), 12Ah, max charging rate 0.8C (9.6A)

Research Done

Watched the Victron Q&A Webinar 1 - Using an Alternator to charge Lithium video, and understand that since the battery has a larger C rating than the alternator, alternator current must be restricted using a Smart Orion or similar.

Victron Options Found

Using the VictronConnect app to check the interfaces via the demo mode. Nothing appears suitable:

- Phoenix Smart Charger IP43 12|30 has "maximum charge current" settings of 7.5A, 15A and 30A, the minimum is too high for the alternator.

- Orion Smart 12V|14V-18A Isolated has a LiFePO4 battery preset but no current limit settings (just voltage), and it isn't clear if it's ok with the variable output from an outboard.

- Blue Smart Charger 12|5 can limit charging to 2A or 7A, but is mains powered, and the 2A lower limit loses 4A of potential charging, while the 7A upper limit is too high for the alternator.

- SmartSolar Charger 100|15 can limit charging on a variable scale in 1A increments, but it's inputs are designed for panels only (MPPT controller won't turn on until incoming voltage exceeds Vbat + 5V. Thereafter the minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V), it's also unclear what the MPPT varying the exposed load will do to the outboard coil.

Non-Victron Options Found

- Sky RC B6 Charger + Sterling Alternator Protection Device this combination is promising. The B6 charger can tolerate a range of input from 11-18V, and 6A maximum output. SkyRC were unclear under what circumstances the battery would be disconnected, and so there is a danger of damaging the alternator by having the battery disconnected during engine running.

This danger can be minimised using a Sterling device that provides an emergency route for current in the case of disconnection or failure. Sterling device is waterproof.

The battery pack accepted in the spec of the B6V2 is 100-50000mAh (unclear what happens if the battery is over-spec). Also Victron members mention it being difficult to configure. It is not waterproof and so extra weather protection must be added.


Which Victron product will allow the charge to be limited to a safe current for the alternator?

[image]


I am in a 3m open-top inflatable boat so the system needs to be compact, light, and simple.

Update May 2022: added promising (unfortunately non-Victron) option

With the existence of the alternator protector, any charging product that can accept variable and lumpy voltage inputs of ~5V-18V while limiting output to 6A and disconnecting if overloaded seems like the perfect solution.

neepsandtatties asked
neepsandtatties edited ·

8 Answers

How to measure two DC Inputs On CCGX

I am looking to install a Victron system on my RV that will be using a third-party DC-DC charger to charge 48v house batteries from the vehicle's 12v alternator. If I were to connect this charger through a dedicated BMV battery monitor (with a second one for the system's DC loads), is there any way to have one show up as an "alternator" input on the CCGX display screen?


I know I could connect it through the BMV-700 and presumably just have the CCGX show it as power flowing from the "DC loads" box to the battery. My primary concern is ease-of-use for the end user, so I would greatly appreciate any way to configure thte CCGX for this display.

chase-martin asked
leedyson1 commented ·

4 Answers

Orion 12/24-10A wiring questions

2 questions;

I have a boat with a house bank of batteries, and I wish to feed 12v from there to my new 24v bank of batteries in the bow for a newly installed bow thruster.

I already have a set of heavy cables (4/0) running about 25ft from the house bank up to my 12v windlass (very tip of the bow). I want to install this dc-dc charger in the bow next to my thruster batteries and thruster on a nice new wood panel with all the electrical stuff mounted on it. Ideally I would like to cut into those 4/0 cables, about 75% of the way to the bow, add some battery "posts" and then carry those on to the windlass. This way I could connect my 12v side of my orion charger to those posts, and feed my 24v bank. Otherwise I will need to run two more sets of #6 wire (+ and -) or larger another 25ft from the alternator or house bank.

1) Does the dc-dc charger HAVE to be connected to my alternator to sense it, or can I simply connect it to my 12v bank via the existing 4/0 cables (I am thinking it would sense the voltage rise when the alternator starts charging my house bank and turn on?)

2) It states that I need to run #6- but when this is only 10A @ 24v. max fuse is like 25A, so I am thinking I can just run #10 on both the 12 and 24v side of this converter and that should be adequate- assuming I don't have that long run to my house bank- just 2-3ft from the converter to the battery posts. Thoughts?

Thanks, Ty.

jointcustody asked
kevgermany answered ·

1 Answer

Small alternator 16A with Lithium

Hi,

What recommendation would you share to charge 90Ah LiFePO4 with an alternator rated 16A.

Alternator is not a smart version, don't have any control in case of high temperature.

I'm quite sure that putting it without any Orion-Tr Smart would blow the alternator in a while.


OrionTr-Smart 12/12-18 is almost good, but since cannot set the current limit, it doesn't help too much.


KR,

Lcas

lucasnowak asked
deminimis answered ·

1 Answer

Orion-Tr 12/12 30 directly connected to the alternator

Hi,

I am using since a while LifePO4 batteries on my boat.

Each battery features an active BMS + balancing.

The starter battery is a 20Ah (CCA of 400A for 5s), while the service battery is an 80Ah battery.

Between them there is a Septor 1275 which allows for charging more than one battery.

The starter battery is connected to the alternator (Hitachi 80A on an Yanmar 3YM20 engine).

For regatta, all fine. For cruising (10hr +), the service battery does not get completely charged when motoring.

I was planning to fit in an Orion-Tr-Smart charger between the alternator and the rest of the circuit (starter battery followed by the Septor 1275 followed by the service battery).

Any drawback in doing so? why is this case not covered by the reference schematic considered?

I understand the Orion is a B2B, but what is actually the diff compared to an A2B in this case?

Any feedback, suggestion, welcome.

Thanks,

SaverioVictron.jpg

ger50 asked
Sarah commented ·

6 Answers

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