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Lithium superpack 100ah discharge

Hi there!

Been searching the forum for an answer, but no luck so far.

I've got a setup with a Lithium Superpack 12v 100Ah, mppt solar, orion-tr smart, multiplus 1200 and a bmv-712. Everything functioned fine over the last two months. I've put away the van for a few days now. When i came back, the bmv was sounding the alarm and reads only 9,8V. All dc loads are disengaged or turned off. Only the bmv is connected.

How can the voltage drop that low? As I understood the internal bms of the superpack should've disconnected the load long before reaching 9,8V! And on top of that, the bmv is the only (tiny) load connected. How is this possible?

All help is very much appreciated!

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flokstra asked
Paul B answered ·

2 Answers

Lithium SuperPack drop-in replacement feasibility

Hi, I've been reading though all the posted questions but can't find a clear answer.

I'm considering replacing the current AGM house bank on my boat with SuperPack batteries, and I'm trying to understand what it would involve.

Below an attempt to visualize my current setup:

[image]


I understand that I'll have to replace the shore charger for a Lithium one, but beyond that, is there anything else I would have to replace/modify, or will the SmartPacks be a simple "drop-in" replacement?

My main doubt is:

Since the BMS is integrated, what will happen if the batteries are fully charged and the engine/alternator is running? Is there a risk the BMS will trigger the over-charge protection and disconnect all the loads (e.g. loosing plotter and instruments when approaching an anchorage/marina)


Any other suggestion/input is highly appreciated, like: does the Argo Fet still make sense with the SuperPack, or should I replace it with an Orion-Tr DC-DC charger? Do I need a separate external BMS to protect the batteries from overcharging?

Thank you!

badrock asked

0 Answers

Odd looking SuperPack 12V 200Ah

Hi,

Today my brand new SuperPack 12V 200Ah got delivered but I am a bit puzzled by its looks. The battery has a blue case and white handles for transportation.

I thought the 200Ah version comes in a black case with black handles? If I take a close look at the product pictures on the victron website I can spot some other differences as well (e.g. mine has much smaller labels and 3 oval shaped openings on the top)

Is there any way to verify if this is a genuine Victron product?


best regards,

Chris

clh asked
clh answered ·

3 Answers

Superpack continually fluctuating low (0.2-1.5V) voltage

I have a superpack 20Ah paired with a bluesolar 75/15 MPPT charger. I connected the battery inputs in reverse, and the charger's 20A fuse blew. I corrected the polarity. When I then replaced the fuse the charger started smoking. Upon disconnecting everything the battery output was fluctuating between approx 0.2V and 1.5V. Presumably the BMS detected a short circuit condition and has disconnected. I've tried applying 14.2V using a PSU, and the battery draws just a few hundred milliamps. The battery voltage will always mimic the PSU voltage, dropping to 0V if I turn the PSU off.

Any ideas on what's going on and how to resolve this would be hugely appreciated.


Here's what happened in more detail:

  1. We connected a Victron Energy superpack 20Ah to a victron energy MPPT blueSolar 75/15 charge controller the wrong way around.
  2. Upon flicking the switch the system remains off, and we discover our mistake and a blown fuse. We did not check the battery at this point.
  3. The battery is then reconnected to the charger with the correct polarity and the fuse replaced.
  4. We flick the ON switch once again, and this time the charge controller starts smoking. We disconnect everything.
  5. When inspecting the battery we discover that the output voltage is low (0.2-1.5V) and fluctuating; presumably the BMS has tripped.
  6. Typically, when this happens you either need to disconnect the load and wait several seconds, or apply a sensible charging voltage.
  7. When the battery did not auto-recover we applied 14.2V (recommended charging voltage) with a PSU and noted that the current draw was low, although was gradually dropping as would be expected if the battery was charging.
  8. When turning the PSU voltage down the battery would track it. Turning the PSU causes the battery to read 0V. When physically disconnecting the PSU the battery returns to its fluctuating state.

This is unexpected for several reasons:
  • The charge controller appears to lack reverse polarity protection.
  • Ultimately, neither the fuse nor the battery BMS reacted fast enough to defend the charger.
  • The battery should be easily capable of withstanding a brief short circuit condition through a 20 amp fuse, even without a BMS.
  • The BMS is not auto-recovering as it presumably (no user manual) should.

liam-trimby asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Multiplus 3000 12v 16A cracking sound when using 850w espresso machine

Hi, victron community! After doing research online for a couple of days and also contacting the distributor that sold it to me, i still didn’t get a defenitive answer on the safety of the sound my multiplus does.

My system is made of a 12v 3000w 16A multiplus, 2x100ah victron superpacks, 810w solar, 50A victron charger, venus gx, smart shunt and a battery protect. I have had no issues, until i used an espresso machine, 850w, peak may be double. i used it with no other load, and it’s within the battery discharge maximum 2x50A(2 parallel batteries). When the water is heating, and pulling around 800w, there are no issues. But when the water pump starts and coffee is dripping normally, the multiplus does a really loud, fast, repeating cracking sound. I will attach a video from the caravan, with the coffee maker and the cracking sound the inverter does. I stopped using the coffee maker since.



there is also this page that says something about some keuring machines, but it’s the only resource i’ve found. I. Here is the link

https://amsolar.com/rv-inverters-chargers/99-vt2000kit

My seller, official victron distributor, assured me it’s normal. i do not trust their expertise after having to convince them to follow the manual directions. Like using 2x50mm2 between battery and inverter, just like the manual says, instead of 1x25mm2, and many more regarding safety switches and lack of good practice in general… not to mention they paired my superpacks in series at first, which the manual says is forbidden, just to try to upsell a new victron inverter that was 24v system… if i didn’t insist them calling another dealer, they could have ruined the batteries… or they did and they don’t show it it.


back to the problem, Loud cracking when using espresso machine. What to do?

this it the model. if you use chrome, you can google translate the whole page in your language.

https://www.emag.ro/espressor-heinner-850-w-1-5-l-15-bar-filtru-dublu-din-inox-negru-argintiu-hem-850bksl/pd/DH9XV6BBM/?cmpid=86943&gclid=CjwKCAjwpMOIBhBAEiwAy5M6YBmz1ocfBzTNfoe8lULjlFK6KN_gKBVWVWVLGqkmo4M4-HLjkdjhXhoCwo8QAvD_BwE


thank you for reading my post. I hope i will find an answer

radu-cernat asked
pwfarnell answered ·

1 Answer

Superpack 24V 50Ah short circuit current

Hi,

I have a question about the superpack 24V 50Ah batteries. What is the short circuit current? Or in other words the max draw limit? I can find that they can provide 50A continues and 100A for a short moment. Is there a cut of in the internal BMS that will not alow more then 100A output?

Thanks in advance for your replay!

sebastiaan asked

0 Answers

Cyrix-Li-Ct Limiting SuperPack Charge

I have noticed that my Cyrix-Li-Ct limits the charge of my Victron SuperPack batteries (3x200ah Victron SuperPacks) to approx 13.4v.

The Cyrix-Li-Ct terminal 87 is connected to 120Amp fuse then the vehicle's battery via a 1/0 cable to my vehicle's battery. Terminal 30 goes the batteries; terminal 85 goes to batteries pos and 86 to my negative bus bar. This was the wiring recommendation from the battery seller.

When I start the van I see the voltage around 13.40v and the amperage as a negative number and within a minute or so it jumps to a positive number (+100 amps) and the voltage increases to above 13.6v but then a couple minutes later it drops to lower positive numbers. The battery voltage rarely reaches 13.5v and current will get as low as 18 amps. 3 BMV712 screen shots attached

Do I need the Cyrix-Li with the SuperPacks? If so, do I have this correctly wired? If correct, why aren't the batteries charging to 14.2v?

[image]

[image]

[image]

Tom asked

0 Answers

New Victron Product - Lithium SuperPack Battery

Hello Victron Community,

I am trying out something new, and if it works, it could be a regular thing.

Victron is launching a new product, and in the spirit of the community I would like to give you all an opportunity to ask any questions that you might have.

This gives you a chance to learn about something first, and also helps us to improve the initial documentation with some of the things that people might like to know that we haven’t thought about yet.


The product is called the Lithium SuperPack battery.

The big difference between this range and our other ranges is an integrated BMS and safety switch. No additional components are needed as the internal switch will disconnect the battery in case of over discharge, over charge or high temperature. Simple and safe.

The SuperPack range comes in 5 sizes – 20, 60, 100 and 200Ah at 12.8V, plus a 25.6V 50Ah.

They can be connected in parallel without limit. But not connected in series.

They are rated for 2,500 cycles to 80% depth of discharge at 25°C

Charge voltages, current capacities and full specifications are listed in the datasheet:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8V-&-25,6-Lithium-SuperPack-EN.pdf

[image]


So, are there any questions?

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) asked
bernd-k commented ·

15 Answers

Multiplus et SuperPack, coupure de charge intenpestive

Bonjour à tous,

Je viens de remplacer sur une installation : Multiplus 12/3000, BMV 700 et MPPT 100/50 la batterie Super-cycle AGM 230 Ah par une Lithium Super Pack 12.8v 200Ah.


J'ai positionné l"interrupteur rotatif du MPPT 100/50 sur 7.

Le Multiplus avait une version de soft 2609413 que j'ai passé à 2609481. Paramètre batterie LiFeP04 et je n'ai pas activé le mode BMV avec la capacité batterie.

Je pense que c'est la dernière version mais j'aimerais que vous me le confirmeriez ?


Mon soucis c'est qu'une fois branché à quai le multiplus entame une phase de charge pendant 2 à 3 minutes ( 14.4 volts et 70Amps de charge) puis il coupe.

Cette coupure coupe l'intégralité de la charge et aussi les éléments branché sur la sortie. Une sorte de black out ! puis il redémarre et entame de nouveau sa phase de charge.... et rebelote il coupe !

Si je débranche la prise de quai il passe en mode convertisseur sans problème.


Une idée du problème ?

Merci
Michaël




mika2a asked
mika2a edited ·

1 Answer

conflict between 1200w / 12v multiplus and two 100Ah superpack batteries each.

I have a question about possible conflicts in the use of the multiplus 1200w/12v and the 2 superpack batteries of 100A each. in a motorhome.

my consumption spreadsheet is:


quant Watts volt Amps Amps in CC (12V) hour Wh Ah
Laptop Charger 1 65 230 0,3 5,2 2,0 130 10,4
mixer 1 700 230 3,0 55,8 0,2 140 11,2









USB 1 50 12 4,2
1,0 50 4,2
fridge 1 45 12 3,8
10,0 450 37,5
light 2 5 12 0,4
3,0 15 1,3
pump 1 42 12 3,5
0,5 21 1,8
exaust 1 40 12 3,3
1,0 40 3,3





total
846 70







Wh Ah


My friend commented that: I may not be able to use them (batteries) with the Inverter, as it is very discharged for these particular batteries. Batteries have a continuous discharge capacity of 50A, while the inverter can consume up to 100A if it is fully charged. I will not damage the battery, as it can withstand a peak discharge of 100 A, but it is for a short period of time, so I will be able to find out that the internal controls will be activated and therefore will shut down the inverter. He recommends using the Smart Lithium line as an alternative and the external BMS. Is that correct? Would it be better to switch the batteries to the smart line? I chose superpack batteries because they are cheaper and have BMS included. What would be better, changing the batteries or changing the multiplus, if possible?

joao-lima asked
wkirby answered ·

1 Answer

BMV-712 State of Charge

I have a BMV-712 monitoring (3) SuperPack 200Ah Victron Batteries.

Currently, the phone app is showing the batteries have an 82% state of charge but the voltage is 12.94V. I talked with tech support where I purchased the batteries and have confirmed that the BMV is setup correctly and that I need to use the batteries for the BMV to accurately indicate state of charge. We have been living in our van for more than month.

Why is the BMV showing 82% state of charge but the store where I purchased the batteries noted that the DC Input low alarms pre-alarm for the attached Multiplus should be set at 12.0v and DC Low Input-shutdown is 11.80?

Thank you!

Tom asked
Tom edited ·

1 Answer

Victron Superpack 200 ah

Recently I had installed 3 x 200ah superpack lithium in parallel (series not allowed). In this case max amp draw will be 210amp max continues. ( all cables same length)

In this setup there is a 220Amp Victron battery protect on the main.

I'm wandering about the use of the battery protect, when I consider adding 1 more 200ah to upgrade the max continues draw to 280amps. This battery protect will limit the system.

Does the Powerpack need a battery protect? Since it has an integrated BMS.







jkbon asked
Tom edited ·

1 Answer

Superpack in series?

Why cannot Superpack batteries be connected in series?

What happens if they are connected in series?

Thanks

cloverandstraw asked
Alexandra commented ·

1 Answer

Lithium SuperPack 25,6V maximum number of batteries

Hello,

i want to install 24x the Lithium SuperPack 25,6V batteries in parallel for one large bank with high current consumers like a 8000VA Quattro or a 450A hydraulic pump. (These batteries with integrated BMS)

There is no manual for this battery, only a data sheet- there is written parallel connection unlimited, so there should be no problem when each wire case the same lenght?

Thanks and Best regards

offshore asked
marc-de-montreal answered ·

1 Answer

25,6V 50Ah Lithium Super Pack

I tested the new Lithium 25.6V Lithium Super Pack batteries. The voltage of the brand new batterie was 26,2V. For testing I connected one battery with a Phoenix 24/800 Inverter. While starting the inverting, I immediately heard the battery relay clicking --> the batterie has no voltage. I disconnected then the inverter, and after 15s I heard again the relay click --> the batterie was back at 26,2V.

Then I tested again the inverter, again the relay click, and I have no voltage. I disconnect the inverter and waited, but the batterie is still "dead." At the battery pole I messure 11.1V. I waited one day, but nothing happened. I try to charge the batterie, but also without a result, the internal battery relay is off.

What can I do? Did I receive a defective battery? I don't dare to unpack and test my other batteries.

offshore asked
offshore commented ·

5 Answers

Superpack 12.8v 50ah - Specifications?

I’ve seen some Victron Superpack 12.8v 50Ah batteries for sale second hand which look genuine but I can’t find any information on the specification. They are in the black cases like the bigger capacity models.

Do/did Victron actually make a 50Ah 12v superpack and if so can someone point me in the direction of the spec sheet?

sbulloch asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

1 Answer

SuperPack Shuts Down

I have two Victron SuperPack 200Ah batteries connected in parallel with a BMC-712 to a Multiplus 3k/120V. After installing a Bosche 2.5 gallon water heater (rated at 12A/120v) which runs off the Multiplus, the batteries appear to shut down losing power on the AC and DC side and the Multiplus notes "Low Battery".

My understanding is that these batteries have a 70A continuous and 100A max 10sec peak.

Using the BMC-712 trend info via the phone app and noticed that power consumption was around 83 amps?

If I connect to a 15 AMP shore power via the Multiplus it work, no power drops. What am I doing wrong?

Tom asked
octafish commented ·

3 Answers

Cyrix-CT-Li and SuperPack LiPo batteries

I have two Victon SuperPack 200Ah batteries connected in parallel with a BMC-712 to a Cyrix-Li-Ct and my Sprinter's lead battery. I understand that the power flow is supposed to be one way but but this morning the Sprinter's battery is dead. I drove the Sprinter yesterday.

Since the SuperPacks have an internal BMS, I dont have an external/second BMS. I was advised to wire the Cyrix with battery to Sprinter battery, Lion terminal to one of the SuperPacks, then terminal 86 to ground and 85 to the one of the SuperPacks's postive terminal. Is this correct?

Advice is greatly appreciated.


Tom asked
Tom answered ·

2 Answers

Gen2 Lithium batteries

Good evening all community members


How do I go about setting up an ESS assistant on a Multiplus ii 5KVA 48/50 with integrated BMS batteries such as Victron Superpack 12V 200Ah.

The batteries are Gen2 lithium batteries that are Series connectable for a 48V system

I have 12 x 350watt panels, 250/70 MPPT, BMV 712.

Would like to use about 50% of stored energy during the evening to power loads during the evening.

I have done ESS setups before, but not with Lithium batteries without access to BMS

Your expert advise will be of great value. Thank you

bergmans-trading-cc asked
bergmans-trading-cc edited ·

0 Answers

MPPT LiFePo4 settings - large PV capacity

I have a number of new portable power systems, each with the same equipment:

- Victron Lithium Superpack 25.6V/50Ah
- BMV 712 Smart
- MPPT 100/20
- Solar PV, up to 3 x array of 400Wp each = total 1200Wp

The very large solar capacity is to cater for the very cloudiest days expected (no other charge sources available). This means that the vast majority of the time the system is going to have way more charge available than it needs. I am concerned about overcharging the Superpack and I have seen it recommended to not fully recharge Li-ion to maximise overall life.

1. From my lead-acid experience with the BMV, it likes to "synced" to 100% regularly to maintain accuracy. Not sure if this is the same with Li-ion? If so, then this conflicts with the recommendation to not regularly charge Li-ion to 100%

2. What would be your recommended settings for the MPPT in this case?
The default for the MPPT for Li-ion appears to be 28.4V, 2h absorption.

colin asked
colin commented ·

2 Answers

Lithium SuperPack + SmartSolar MPPT 100/15

Hi Everyone,


In small camping trailer I am about to install:

  • SmartSolar MPPT 100/15
  • 180W solar panel
  • Lithium SuperPack 100 Ah 12V
  • Blue Smart IP22 Charger 30A / to charge battery from AC only when solar panel is not enough


And connect like that:

  • Battery and solar panel connect to MPPT
  • All loads from trailer (probably max 10A) connect to "Load" in MPPT
  • Charger connect directly to battery


Question:

  • How do I know how many Ah remains in the battery? Can I use voltage (which I see in Bluetooth app) from MPPT to estimate level, or I need e.g. BMV-700?


Kind regards!

electrofanta asked

0 Answers

How to maintain the cell balancing for a 25.6/50A lithium superpack battery?

How can i check every cell voltage since i can't connect to this battery via Bluetooth?

lauren asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

1 Answer

Will a Victron MPPT start up a Lithium Superpack from a low voltage cut off state?

Hello, I hope you're all having good holidays!


I am planning a portable power supply along the lines of the picture below.

My concern is what will happen when the superpack discharges until the internal bms cuts off due to low voltage?

I suspect the MPPT will not sense a battery voltage and hence will never commence charging the battery?

I'm guessing that the best thing to do would be to use a Battery Protect to isolate the loads before the internal bms cuts-off - thereby ensuring that the MPPT is always able to charge.

However, if it *would* work ok as per the drawing below, without a Battery Protect, I would prefer that - due to simplicity, space and cost considerations.

[image]


colin asked
colin commented ·

1 Answer

Victron Lithium Super PAC 12

Installing six of the lithium superpact 12volt 100amp in parallel on our sail boat. What size alternator will be best? Thanks

tito asked
markus answered ·

1 Answer

BMV 712 settings for 2 x 12,8V 100Ah Lithium SuperPack Batteries

Hey everybody,

how do I know the correct settings for my BMV? Especially:

  1. Charged Voltage
  2. Tail Current
  3. Peukert exponent
  4. Current threshold
  5. Charge Efficiency Factor

As of now, measurement is completely off (black-out at 95% SOC). They don't drop a single word on their website...

Thanks!

schlegeling asked
jasontav edited ·

1 Answer

Lithium Super Pack only 70A discharge current?

so with a limit of 70A discharge current given in the datasheet.. it‘s Not possible to use e.g. a multiplus 2K at 200Ah „Superpack“ ?


are you joking?

bitcrusher asked
boekel commented ·

3 Answers

Superpack charge/discharge control?

Good Morning

May anyone can provide me some more infos about Superpack. Actually there is no manual for it.

Especially for me i am interessted in how allow to discharge and charge works in case of only one connection to terminal? Will the mechanism completly block in case of error that customers have to reset something or is there internally an diode mechanism which can handle both direction seperatly controlled with one terminal?


regards Peter


Peter Polz asked
markus edited ·

2 Answers

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