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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image

New Victron Product - Lithium SuperPack Battery

Hello Victron Community,

I am trying out something new, and if it works, it could be a regular thing.

Victron is launching a new product, and in the spirit of the community I would like to give you all an opportunity to ask any questions that you might have.

This gives you a chance to learn about something first, and also helps us to improve the initial documentation with some of the things that people might like to know that we haven’t thought about yet.


The product is called the Lithium SuperPack battery.

The big difference between this range and our other ranges is an integrated BMS and safety switch. No additional components are needed as the internal switch will disconnect the battery in case of over discharge, over charge or high temperature. Simple and safe.

The SuperPack range comes in 5 sizes – 20, 60, 100 and 200Ah at 12.8V, plus a 25.6V 50Ah.

They can be connected in parallel without limit. But not connected in series.

They are rated for 2,500 cycles to 80% depth of discharge at 25°C

Charge voltages, current capacities and full specifications are listed in the datasheet:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8V-&-25,6-Lithium-SuperPack-EN.pdf


So, are there any questions?

batterySuperPackNew Products
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15 Answers
bernd-k avatar image
bernd-k answered ·

I bought this SuperPack 100AH, 12.8V. According to the data sheet float voltage is 13.5V and absorption 14.2-14.4V. Now my Votronic VBCS offers two options for charging:

- LiFePO4 14.2V: absorption 14.2V, float 13.6V

- LiFePO4 14,4V: absorption 14.4V, float 13.8V

Which one fits better to the SuperPack?

2 comments
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bernd-k avatar image bernd-k Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ ·

Thank you. Is 13.6V then the votage where the battery is fully charged (100% capacity)? Or already at storage voltage 13.2V?

boekel avatar image
boekel answered ·

Just to make sure: will the bms cut of charging when below 5 degrees C?

Also, does the battery need a minimum voltage to stay balanced?

'end of discharge voltage' 10V I assume that's where the bms cuts out, but over time, a little imbalance in the cell capacity will make the battery cut-out at a higher voltage, so you might want to make that 11V (2.75V per cell, battery is really empty than) as a target 'discharge' voltage.

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technomadia avatar image
technomadia answered ·

Looks like a great new product!

Is there any way to check the internal state of charge, cell status, or temperature?

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ripper avatar image
ripper answered ·

Will this be a drop in replacement for my starter battery on my car? I take it glamping and then I wouldnt have to bring an extra battery for the amenities....

1 comment
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No, the max current is not high enough to operate the starter motor.

mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

@Peter Polz asked: "Especially for me i am interessted in how allow to discharge and charge works in case of only one connection to terminal? Will the mechanism completly block in case of error that customers have to reset something or is there internally an diode mechanism which can handle both direction seperatly controlled with one terminal? "


Answer: No, the mechanism will not lock out requiring a user intervention:

  • Charging remains possible after end of discharge shutdown
  • In case of overvoltage the mechanism will unblock after ending the overvoltage, similar for overtemperature or charge/discharge overload.
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

More answers:

Will the bms cut of charging when below 5 degrees C? Answer: No.

Is there any way to check the internal state of charge, cell status, or temperature? Answer: No.

Does the battery need a minimum voltage to stay balanced? Answer: yes: 14,2V


Best regards, Matthijs


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kai avatar image
kai answered ·

A few questions:

* What is the estimated lifetime of system - defined as say capacity >= 80% nominal, if it is used in a permanent float configuration (i.e. rarely invoked UPS type scenario)

* What is the optimal absorption frequency to maximise pack life / capacity?

* When will this hit Australia?

1 comment
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usually lifetime is depending on ambient temperatures for Lithium ion batteries.

Paul B avatar image
Paul B answered ·

you are saying 2500 at 80% DOC then what stuffed or whats its status at that point

as a example question

after that 2500 has it still got 80% of its original capacity left

then 5000 cycles and 70% of its original capacity left

then 10000 cycles and 60% of its original capacity left

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Paul B avatar image
Paul B answered ·

Would it be advisable to make it very clear that ie in boats these may not be advisable to use as there output max current is only 100amps for 10s . Especially for the higher A/H versions as they may say O' I have a 200 a/h battery and they will think it can put 200 amps out

The battery itsself as per picture currently has the charge limit it should also have the max draw limit as well

ie a multi 12v 3000/120 inverter charger would stuff one of these and even two /3 batteries in parallel we could/would still exceed there limits.

I would be making it very very clear in the manuals that these battery's have low max current output limitations


And Also

its NOT clear at all that a inbuilt cutoff is inside the battery and how it restarts for charging in a low voltage cutoff situation.

and once every few months it should be charged to 14.2 volts for say 1hr for the balancing to work


Just my thoughts


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stefan-i avatar image
stefan-i answered ·

Is this Lithium SuperPack (for example the 100Ah) suitable for a small fiber-glass boat?

- the manual states that Maximum humidity should be 95%?

- is there a danger of the battery catching on fire and how can this risk be minimized?

- is it good to charge this battery with solar panels?

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John Rushworth avatar image
John Rushworth answered ·

I've taken note of comments and now published a blog about these batteries https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/02/26/lithium-superpack-batteries-an-all-in-one-solution/

5 comments
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Good blog John. I see that you mention (and I've seen it mentioned many places) about Lithium batteries having a 92% round trip efficiency. Do you know of any data to back this up? I've no reason to suggest that they don't have this efficiency. I'd just be interested in seeing it.

basically this is due to the difference in voltage during charging and discharging (due to internal resistance) the higher the charge discharge current the less efficient.

If you only count Ah in/out then you'll see about 100% efficiëncy

Hi Spudgun. Thanks. The data is taken from our datasheets and as far as I am aware all such data is taken from Victron’s own research and development.

My experience with li-ion batteries is 96% efficiency. Ted difference from Lead Acid is amazing (~60%). The ambient temp in the battery room DROPPED 15C when I put the lithiums in.

John, thank you for the insightful notes. Very useful!


skipcool avatar image
skipcool answered ·

Hello,

My supplier sold me a superpack battery and a Cyrix-li-ct to connect both start battery (lead) and leisure battery (super pack) to the engine alternator.
I read on another post that Cyrix-li-ct need a charge disconnect signal “+” on the pin 85 coming from the BMS. As there is no output from the internal BMS of the superpack, I am in trouble.

What is the recommended connection scheme to be able to charge both lead start battery and superpack leisure batty with one single alternator? Is it possible to apply a tension on the 85 pin of the Cyrix to force the Cyrix connection? What is the tension to be applied then?

Thanks,

Cyril

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adev avatar image
adev answered ·

What type of cells does it have inside?

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al avatar image
al answered ·

In which country are Victron Super Pack batteries manufactured and are they licensed for air freight?

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Mike Dorsett avatar image
Mike Dorsett answered ·

I see the lack of series operation as a big drawback. I take it this is due to the voltage rating of the disconnect system and lack of external communications to the internal bms? Also having the continuous rating at C/2 is a bit marginal for some applications. Perhaps the bms could use a Bluetooth system to communicate and synchronise with other batteries and external bms display..?

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I agree. I actually wish they would make 48V versions.

As for commutation, they should just add RJ45 connectors with CAN bus. GX already supports CAN BMS so why doesn't victrons own batteries.

Here in Fiji, I'm assembling 3.3kWh 26V Li-ion batteries with BMS cards. These can be connected in series and parallel, up to at least 32 units to start. I'm using a web interface for the bms, so can be directly viewed on smart phone, laptop etc. Also has modbus interface. I don't like the CAN interface - it seems that everyone is developing their own proprietary protocol over this interface and there is limited information and, as far as I can see (pun not intended) limited standardisation. If you want the standard you have to buy this at great expense. If manufacturers want a standard followed, they should make it available. Yes I know they cost money to organise and maintain, but these guys should cover that of sales of product - not sales of the standard.