In Germany an Off-Grid system with any kind of AC Grid connection (even totally disconnected) on the same piece of land is considered "parallel operation". If we indirectly or directly connect any "generator" (including Multiplus or Quattro regardless of configuration) to the grid we are no longer in parallel operation and a ton of rules, bureaucracy, tax, and even remote control is applicable! So long as the sun shines everything is okay, until winter...
Even with an oversized "full roof" solar array, in winter especially with EVs, the only way I see to cover the couple of months with poor sun BUT keeping ALL the electronics Off-Grid is to trickle CHARGE the batteries from the Grid for a few days/week at a time. For example, like an ad-hoc/mobile EV charger or electric oven we can draw up to 3,6kVA from a "charger" 24/7 without breaking rules to deliver 86kWH/day. Using the battery as a buffer, we can then trickle charge the EVs for a few hours each day, cover heating and entertainment requirements. On the DC side everything is perfect with Multis/Quattros even using DC power directly to reduce battery cycles.
It's important for me to keep ALL the electronics Off-Grid so that I have (almost) complete freedom to choose the power rating and technology within my system. My Grid distribution box will only contain a couple of power sockets for testing plus chargers split evenly across all phases, that's it. The energy company has nothing to say about the rest (common electrical safety respected). ;-)
Of course, the basic assumption here is "not direct or indirectly connected" regards AC/Grid power. Here we only have DC connectivity between the Grid and Off-Grid systems, technically they are only "connected" via magnetic fields.
Now the question...
The Skylla 48v 25A charger appears to be the only option (x3 <= 3.6kVA), is expensive at 900€ each as I have to buy 3 (2700€), but not very smart at all. There is no way to share temperature, voltage sense and BMS control via any VE bus (Direct or CAN). I could get a Multiplus or Quattro at similar prices but those can feed energy back to the grid which is not allowed. I guess I have to use them as dumb chargers with the remote switch/relay and shunt to fill-in for the missed capability.
The Skylla may even have to be set in power supply mode to prevent its charge logic conflicting with the BMS or much higher than spec capacity house battery? :-( I'd really like to keep a pure Victron installation but if it comes down to power supply mode then are there any 3rd party 48v chargers which integrate with VenusOS or a VE bus?
I hear the rules are very simple in the Netherlands, perhaps why Victron don't see this requirement? Then Victron don't make "Smart" 48v chargers because they feel the demand is covered by the Multiplus and Quattro? But these devices CAN return energy to the Grid, so considered "energy production" devices, which IS a problem for evermore people seeking Off-Grid as a solution to the politics or just want freedom of choice.
Or is there something I missed here... For example, is it impossible to return power via the AC2 input of a Quattro with physical/electronic limitation (it would have to be documented also with a schematic as proof for the energy provider)?
Ik heb thuis een multiplus II GX aangesloten op het Net met een 10Kw lithium batterij.
Alles in mooi aangesloten zoals het in de manual beschreven staat en het systeem werkt ook gewoon perfect, Maar nu is de keuring langs geweest om het systeem te keuren en dat wilde hij niet doen omdat de omvormer in serie was aangesloten met het electriciteitsnet en niet in parallel. (Ik vertelde hem dat dit systeem enkel maar in serie kan worden aangesloten en dat alle meet apparatuur vanbinnen in de multiplus aanwezig is, en dat dit toestel aan alle veiligheids voorzieningen voldoet en gekeurd is door Synergrid belgie)
Kan iemand mij helpen met info of voorbeelden van iemand anders die dit ook zo gedaan heeft thuis, zodat ik dit kan voorleggen aan de keurder? Of heb ik zelf iets over het hoofd gezien?
In bijlage de schets van hoe het is aangesloten:
Met vriendelijke groeten
This is my first post in this forum, and I'm looking forward to being a part of this community. My question is:
Is the Victron Quattro compatible with EG4-LL (formerly gyll) 48v batteries?
The batteries are available through Signature Solar and have RJ45 ports. They are almost always seen paired with Growatt products.
Hello! We are building a 25' all-electric boat, with various Victron components and hoped to get some advice from the community. Questions are up top with details of the system farther down.
Battery Protection: We need to have battery under/over voltage protection on the 48V bank, but the largest 48V battery protect from Victron is 100A, which isn't high enough to have just one (We anticipate a potential burst load of say 8kW for 30 seconds or so, which is a 166A load). We could monitor each individual 48V battery with a separate BatteryProtect, but is this the best way to monitor and protect the batteries?
General System Design: Does anyone see a problem with what we have proposed in the diagram below? Any gotchas to watch out for? We are hoping the Cerbo GX and GX Touch 50 + iphone apps will provide monitoring and alarms for system operation.
12V system and battery: We need a 12V battery and require monitoring and protection for it, ideally victron branded and something we can monitor using with the GerboGX alongside the rest of the system. It doesn't appear that the 12V batteries from Victron natively connect to the Cerbo GX, will this require a BMV712 or smartshunt to be monitored? And if so, which is recommended?
Solar System: We will probably have two different sizes of solar panels on the roof of the boat, potentially with different nominal voltages, would that require two different solar charge controllers? Thoughts on flexible vs rigid panels, and the Victron charge controllers that would be best? We haven't purchased the panels yet so needed details are missing but any general advice is appreciated.
Description: Gavia is a 25’ all-electric solar motor boat under development.
48V DC System: The motor is a brushed 7.5 kW DC 48V Thoosa Electric Motor. We hope the nominal draw will be around 1-2 kW while under way, but short bursts (1 minute) of 7.5kW are expected (we have not tested the boat in the water yet). Energy will be provided by a 48V lithium-iron battery bank. Solar cells on the roof will be the primary recharge method, hopefully 1kWp or greater, with AC shore power and backup 1kW generator for AC charging on-the-go. A hybrid inverter/charger should be a convenient way to pack lots of functionality into one box, and AC input/output should be 120V (we are in the USA).
12V DC System: The 12V DC system will be used to run low-wattage house electronics (navigation, radio, windless, house lighting, etc), and 12V bow thruster whose max draw is 1500W. This larger 12V draw necessitates a 12V energy bank (vs relying on DC-DC converter), so a 12V 100+A lithium battery will be used and it should recharge from the main 48V system.
120V AC: 120V AC will be used for a minimum number of appliances onboard, the largest of which is the induction cooktop with a 1800W maximum draw. This will be provided by the hybrid inverter/charger.
Note that we do not anticipate running the high power loads at the same time. For example, we won’t run the induction cooktop while the electric motor is running.
Here are some system components:
Recent fan and total newbie.
I am thinking of a 48V back up system with grid charging for my home power few lights and security system.
When it comes to chargers I found few Victron chargers with 24V ,three isolated outputs. Is it possible to combine the isolated output in series to make a 48V charger? I am looking at
PHOENIX smart IP43
SKYLLA IP 65.
To be future proof I will need Li Battery charge option hence cant use Skylla TG only option with 48V.
I have a fully operational new system but currently without monitoring.
Multiplus 2 48v, BMV 700, automation system
The bmv has a 4 pin serial port on the rear.
5v, Rx, Tx, Gnd.
I have the victron cable 9pin rs232 to the BMV
In the said cable there is circuitry in the 9 pin end, the other end is sealed. see photo.
1; Are the electronics in the lead converting VE bus signals to RS232?
2; Is the output from the BMV’s Rx, Tx, & Gnd standard RS232 protocol or proprietary and only RS232 after the electronics?
3; Does pin 1 on the BMV need 5v or is it supplying 5v?
4; Is the Gnd common to signal & the 5v line?
What should be the proper size of my battery cables in a 3 phase system with 3 quattro 10 kVA-120V-48VDC?
i am pretty new to this. I have 58 x 12v 130Ah AGM batterys.
Looking to go off gird.
I have 20 x 300w panels wired in 5 in series 2 parallel going into 2 x 250/85 MPPT controllers. There is room for at least another 20 panels in the area I am installing.
I have a couple of questions.
1. Can I wire all 58 of these Battery's into a 24v system with a balancer or would it be better to create of 48v system?
2. I have a 24v Multiplus II at the moment doing a load share and is working great but only running on 8 batteries. In the house I have an electric Aga that runs around 21a. This currently is just connected to the mains and rest of the house runs on the invertor. - Could I upgrade to a 48v system and run the aga as well.
Looking at options to build a system for a global boat using a 48V lithium storage system. Would like to keep the AC shore power in separate to enable global shore power capability that is frequency and voltage agnostic.
Looking at the Victron catalogue, I don't see any options to support 120V or ideally 120V/240V AC 48V battery charging.
Can you put any 24V Victron chargers in series (e.g. Skylla-IP65) in series to get 48V charging?
Any third party options that you can recommend? Prefer not to add additional weight, complexity and space with voltage or isolation transformers in the input side.
I wanted to share a home battery solar system that our Powerwall battery dealer recently installed, and I simply love the design!
The installation includes the following components:
1x #Victron Energy Quattro 48v 8 kvA
1x Fronius Primo 8.2-1 8kW (AC Coupled on AC out)
10 x IBC Solar Monocrystalline OS9-HC (365w) – East-facing
10 x IBC Solar Monocrystalline OS9-HC (365w) – West facing
2 x #BSLBATT Power Wall LiFePO4 #10.2kWh 48v
Great work from Spinnacle Power!
More information about BSLBATT Powerwall battery
Hi, I have a Victron 3f setup - 3x Multiplus, 2x MPPT charger and 3x Pylontech 3000 and Cerbo. As a tech hobbyist I'm looking forward to extend my capacity with a custom 15S LiFePo4 pack to match Pylontech battery voltage and a BMS that can talk to the Cerbo via CANbus to provide the system with battery data similar how ie. Pylontech does that. Will the Cerbo work with both batteries together correctly calculating all the values together - like capacity, SOC, current draw and so on? I just could not find such an information anywhere. Thanks.
I currently have a 11.1kWh system on our house in NSW Australia, utilising 30x Enphase IQ7PLUS-72-2-INT inverters. Currently, this system is set up to provide power during the day when required and export the excess PV to the grid.
The majority of our power demands are at night so we are looking at battery storage. We are looking at a 48v 14.3kWh battery and would like the following to happen:
If you could please recommend an inverter/charger for this, It would be greatly appreciated.
I was thinking the Multiplus-II 48/5000 if that would work, as well as a GX device for monitoring. I believe I will also require a current sensor with the Multiplus.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Ich habe, bzw möchte 4 Solarmodule mit jeweils 320Wp haben.
Diese haben Vmpp mit 32,2V / Impp 10,06A und eine Spitze von 40,4V.
Wenn ich die 4 Module in einem String betreibe, komme ich auf 161,1V.
Das ganze soll auf einer 48V Anlage arbeiten. Würde dafür ein Victron 150/35 noch gehen?
Kommt der mit den 10V mehr noch klar? Oder gibt es dafür noch Alternativen?
Ich könnte ja auch die Module in 2x2 verschalten, aber dann wird es nach unten für die 48V eng.
Oder doch lieber andere Module nehmen?
Hi, hope you are all well? I am looking for someone to point me in the right direction of how to approach and where to find some upgraded batteries for my off-grid system please.
I have a BlueSolar MPPT 150v / 70A, Quattro 48i/10000/140 inverter and 20 batteries that I'm told provide 11.98 amp hours at 48v. Also have a CCGX that I use for (basic) remote access.
At present there aren't any issues with the batteries and they seem to keep their charge as well as they have ever done, but they have been in a few years and when I bought this place I knew they would need replacing sometime.
Any help and advice on which batteries to get and where to get them please? I don't have a limitless budget but don't want to do it on a shoestring as I want them to last.
Also, would there be a need to amend / upgrade any of the existing kit if and when the batteries were replaced?
Someone who works on a large hydro project suggested to me that gel rather than lead-acid would be the way forwards.
Any help, advice or general shoving in the right direction would be much appreciated.
Please note though, I inherited this system and I far from a novice let alone an expert, so it will have to be in words of two or less syllables if I am going to grasp it!
Very much appreciated.
Hallo, ich habe aktuell 2 Solarzellen mit 320Wp (60 Zellen) und Vmpp 32,2v
Kann ich bin dem String 64V, eine 48V Anlage betreiben? Ich habe gelesen, daß der mppt min 5V mehr benötigt. Dann wäre ich also bei 53V minimale Eingangsspannung. Die hätte ich dann ja erreicht. Oder gibt es damit Probleme und ich sollte lieber auf 24V gehen?
Aktuell habe ich noch eine 12v Anlage, möchte aber gern eine Multiplus II haben und würde eigentlich 48v gehen wollen. Ich habe auch kein Platz, für eine 3. Zelle auf dem Dach.
I have a very specific battery system, nominal it is 48V, but at its lowest SoC it is 31V. Will the multiplus be able to start charging when the battery is at this point or will it go into error?
I am building up a system consisting of 4x 170Ah, 12V lead AGM batteries in series. I attached the schematic below. I have the following question:
Would it be okay to "bridge" the input to one balancer to the next one like showed in the schematic?
From electrical point of view the plus-minus pairs of two batteries are nearly same polarity, they are connected with busbars or short cables with a crossection >16mm² (still in planning).
But I am not sure if this wiring will lead to problems that will make the Balancing not work... like voltage drops over the Balancer connection cables leading to higher errors in voltage measurement or maybe something else I am not aware of.
The description in the manual does not make it 100% clear to me if this wiring would be okay or not.
Does someone have experience with that?
I'm running 24x 2v bats that's goes up to 54V.
I would like to connect Few more 12v batteries (probably 10 or 20)
What would I need to connect in safe way? Is it even possible or I have to just bridge 12v bateries to 48v and scrap my old 54v battery pack?
Hi I want to charge my 48V battery with a 6kW DC alternator connected to an engine. My alternator is variable speed (2500 - 3000 RPM) Permanent Magnet alternator. Therefore voltage varies with speed. Is there any active rectifier chargers option available in the market for this application. Also can I use solar charger for this application since they can take variable voltages. Any help appreciated. It is for a project I am working with a company.
Installed in April 2019 by Solar UK for me is the MultiPlus 48v/5000va/70amp solar system with 4 x 12v 230ah Victron batteries, first year a brilliant system. One battery failed to hold charge February this year, then one more failed 6 weeks ago, now the other 2 have failed - none of the batteries will hold volts and when the system was proposed the batteries were expected to last at least 7 years. I have not heard back about warranty claim on the first battery, but there is no value in keep replacing the batteries. What should I do?
I have 4 strings of 4x65AH battery's can i ad a string of 4x100AH battery's to increase the total capacity for my ESS system MultiPlus II 48v 3000VA
The battery's a SUN Battery SB12-65 (12V65AH) and SB12-100 (12V100AH)
How would I setup my Cerbo GX to see both my 48V house bank and my 12V house bank? I’m setting up a 48V bank with 800W of lithium to run 2 5000W inverters. While keeping my original 12V bank as is.
I’m using a lynx shunt and a VE.BUS BMS
I am in the process of spec'ing out the power electronics for a large sailboat. For various reasons, it will have a 48v LiFePo4 bank where the majority of charging sources come in, as well as the inverter/charger, and then a 24v buffer battery where most of the DC loads will draw from. It looks like the total 24v DC power usage will be around 10kwh per day, but with loads like electric winches or windlass potentially spiking temporarily to 3.6kw (~150A)
My first question is this - what is the proper way to handle this conversion? The only 48/24v dc/dc converters I see on the site are the 'dumb' Orion DC/DC chargers that go up to 400W. It looks like we'll need about 500W/hr of charging to keep up with demands, and an extra converter for redundancy (absolutely cannot have this fail at sea!) So it looks like 3 x Orion 48/24v converters in parallel?
Secondly - the buffer battery will be a Victron 24v 200ah LiFePo4 smart battery. The DC/DC converters seem to be configured to just output a steady voltage. Does this buffer battery need to be supplied with a 'smart' charger to give it exactly the right voltage to fully charge, or can the converters be set to a safe voltage and just keep it mostly charged?
We were on a field visit to diagnose system failers on 12 solar power systems with the following victron systems. 5he installation is AC coupled system that uses Frunius Primo string invrrter, Quatro Multiplus 48/5000/70 inverter charger with CC GX and BMV. The system functioned for a year after installation and stoped. When we measure the total voltage 9n the battery output terminal, we read 6 volts and .1, .2, .8", etc. There is no generator or a DC mppt charging devic3 to rehabilitate the batteries. These systems stopped functioning 8 months before. How can we charge the batteries? Should we change the batteries or recharge them? Kindly help us on how to repair and what should be done for sustainability.
Hi all. My currently solar setup on my campervan is as follows:
250W PV > 30A charge controller > 12V leisure battery.
I have just bought an E-bike which runs off a 48V lithium battery that I would like to be able to charge from both the solar panel and the 12V leisure battery (when charging overnight). My current charge controller can only charge a 12/24V battery so am looking at buying the Victron 100|20 controller that can charge a 48V battery.
- If my solar panel is only pulling in 30V, will my 48V lithium battery still charge?
- Can I charge my 48V battery from the 12V leisure battery without using an inverter? If so, what do I need to do it safely?
The Battery Switch ON/OFF 275A 12-48V
Can i use it in a 48V system with a Multiplus II
Regarding a 24V system, what does the MPPT manual mean by the following indicated in bold below?
"3.3 PV configuration (also see the MPPT Excel sheet on our website) ● The controllers will operate only if the PV voltage exceeds battery voltage (Vbat). ● PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5 V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1 V. ● Maximum open circuit PV voltage: 150 V or 250 V, depending on model.
For example: 24 V battery, mono- or polycristalline panels, max PV voltage 150 V: ● Minimum number of cells in series: 72 (2x 12 V panel in series or one 24 V panel). ● Recommended number of cells for highest controller efficiency: 144 cells (4x 12 V panel or 2x 24 V panel in series). ● Maximum: 216 cells (6x 12 V or 3x 24 V panel in series).
48 V battery, mono- or polycristalline panels, max PV voltage 250 V: ● Minimum number of cells in series: 144 (4x 12 V panel or 2x 24 V panel in series). ● Maximum: 360 cells (10x 12 V or 5x 24 panel in series)"
Is 24V charging capped at 150V? (even with the 250V series)
Sorry if this is a bit long winded, I would appreciate some advice on Equipment selection and Integration for a 48V off grid system. I have been going around in circles Googling youtubing etc on Victron, Solar, Batteries etc.
I am going to be living temporally in a farm location whilst Renovating a Barn for a future house and also setting up a Camping/Glamping/Cabin site. This is all in the same Farm Location.
The 48V/5000 Multiplus 2 (GX ?) seems ideal as I can feed with a generator if required supplying 2 x Ac outputs and also feed via an MPPT from Solar (20 x 370W ish of Ground mounted Solar giving around 7 to 7.5 KW) and with Lifepo4 Batteries.
I have narrowed MPPT options to the 250/100 or the MPPT-RS ?
The advantages of the 250 is it is Multi Voltage and I could use Later in a 12 or 24V Camping setup with Some of the Panels. However it is limited to 5800W.
The RS can use more Solar and it has 2 x MPPT Trackers (2 x serial strings of 10) Disadvantage 48V and more expensive.
I would like to top up a water heater if the system is full (load shed?)
Looking at a couple of Friends rough Data (from a 6KW and 50Kw grid systems it seems the more Panels the better for the UK winter.
For Batteries was thinking of a 16s 280aH aliexpress type, but BMS selection seems to be a nightmare looking at all the reviews.
In my Understanding of this could I use a BMS to balance the Cells and the Victron setup to deal with the high and low voltage and temp sensors.
From online it seems some are using the BMS to deal with the total load, I don't know why.
Could use an expensive decent BMS if required.
I would consider Pylontech Batteries but they are more expensive and I would like to learn the system.
In addition the 16s cells could be later split to create 12V or 24v for the Camping area (to match the 250 MPPT).
Really it is the Integration and communication with the Kit I need help with, plus brushing up on my theory.
For Instance am I better off Having the Multiplus and a Cerbo or a multiplus GX, do I need a battery Monitor? or which one would one be better over the other in terms of temperature sensors and relay outputs for generator etc. (I don't want multiple items capable of doing the same thing)
The system will be located at the top of a hill around some old Barns so was considering a small wind turbine in the future unless its too much hassle.
In an ideal I world not have a grid connection for my future house (or just export/ use as much as posssible) so I could use the system or expand it for this.
This is a big learning process... and I am an Electrician ! (Never been involved with Generators, Solar or Battery storage though)
Hi all, I have a system made by Quattro 48V/10000/140, two MPPTs Smart solar, 48 V floade lead acid batteries, 755 Ah (C5) SG tested and ok by manufacturer. But I never had energy from batteries during evening/night despite voltage was above DC restart... You can find attached a PDF with settings of quattro and an image with assistant settings. Please tell me what is wrong...SET.pdfImmagine 2021-02-07 182526.jpg
Hi everyone, actually I have a TAB battery floaded lead acid battery (48V 24cells 775Ah(C5)). The fact is that... It's a couple of days that I check Sg of the cells in late afternoon when MPPTs chargers are in foat or even off status. Today I read 55V on CCGX but sg give is 1.25. My battery dealer told me some weeks ago that to have the voltage i have to add 0.84 to sg readings, so today 1.25+0,84= 2.09 V/cell, that gives 2,09x24=50,16V... 5V less than the reading on CCGX! why does it happens? I don't have BMV nor shunt. Inverter is off.