My names Jesse Fuchs and I own a 30ft Airstream Argosy that I have stripped down to the bones, and I am slowly poking away at rebuilding while Covid-19 has closed my local watering hole.
It’s about the time to start planning the electrical system so I can size the wire, fuses, and disconnects. I have cruised the forums the last year and know that these are tough places for someone to drop into looking for guidance, especially if I have overlooked something important or decided to buck any of the current trends, alas, I am reaching out for help from the Victron Gurus. I apologize if something is obvious and I have missed it. Please bear with me.
I have attached the basic Electrical plan. The first thing you may notice is that, for cost reasons, I have decided to not use Victron batteries. I just cannot justify spending 12 000$ more.
This brings me to my first question.
#1 Other than connecting to the Lynx Shunt and monitoring the batteries temperatures with the Cerbo GX what am I missing?
#2 I want to simplify the system and stick with Victron so I have decided to opt out of using the Simerine monitoring system. One thing I really like about the Simerine is that it can monitor current draw of loads. Am I able to do this with the Cerbo GX or any other Victron equipment and then see a visual on the GX touch?
#3 This is more of a solar question, but I have organized the solar panels in 3 strings of 2 series panels to avoid shading issues. Should I use one MPPT 100/50 or three smaller MPPTs in parallel?
#4 I have done some very loose math and according to my load audit, for 3100w I am 100 ah short and a bit overkill on solar. I just want to avoid roof penetrations in the future so I would rather upsize. If there is a more efficient way that is glaring at anyone that I am missing? I’d love the tips.
#5 I do have a BMS 12/200 but thought that it was easier to go with the Orion 1212. If anyone needs a BMS 12/200 or it actually can be easily integrated for tow vehicle charging, please let me know.
# 6 Will there ever be a way to incorporate the Garnet seamaster levels into a Cerbo without having to utilize all of Kevin Windrems hard work?
Hi all, does any body know if Victron have made stencils for Visio for their Victron Products?
Or if any body else made it and made it free to use.
It makes lite so much easier when making my schematics.
Hi, my MPPT charge controller had a crystalline substance pour out of it. I caught most of it. Looks like the base has disintegrated. Barely used and when not in use is stored with cushioning.
I have just joined this community so please bear with me.
I recently had a battery installed removed from my property as it did not do what i expected off the shelf. It was manufactured by a company called GivEnergy and it was a very poor product with many development issues.
Now i have decided to go out this myself.
I am looking at utilising either the Multiplus or Quattro Units along with Pylontech Batteries and wondered if you had any advice, comments or examples of system design/schematics.
The system is to integrate with an already install SolarEdge 6000 HD Inverter for my PV.
I am looking for storage capacity of approximately 21kw, so utilising the Pylontech 3000 Series batttery. The biggest request i have for the system is having a large discharge power as I have a Air Source Heat Pump which can take up to 5kw for Water Heating.
My idea was to use the Quattro 8000 Unit having the batteries wired in a stack of 8 with a ring circuit back to a DC Distribution. The batteries are to be controlled using a GX Device.
My question really revolves, any lessons learned? Does anyone have any advice on the Quattro and GX Devices.
Am i doing the right thing with this?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
I have noticed that the VICTRON Product info and specification listed on Helioscope is incorrect.
They still list the BLUESOLAR RANGE of Gridtie Inverters. Maybe Victron can be in direct contact with Folsom Labs to update and provide the correct information on you products to ensure that our simulations are correct.
You can contact Canute Haroldson - email@example.com
Still designing, came onto an approach which seems to me almost to good to be true (in my case), so I have the suspicion I make a mistake. Can you enlighten me?
The engine of my truck exists with 24V 35/55/80A alternators, so I assume that on the 80A model I could use about 50A (so roughly 1000W) without impacting the core of the truck.
I would prefer to run my "ESS" on 48V as it makes technically and financially most sense.
Now I could run 24-48 DCDC convertors, but to get to 25A on 48V takes 3.
But I could also run a 24V inverter and use it to convert my 50A spare of 80A 24V alternator in a 1000W 230V generator, which I connect to the ACin of the multiplus. In order not to stretch my alternator, and leave my truck stater batteries alone, I need a multiplus where I can set a very low limit on the ACin, only the 48/3000 model with limit minimum of 4.3 A stays in the 1000W ballpark (5000 is 6A). If I put a Cyrix 230A between alternator/starter battery & the inverter which I can program a bit, I should be able to make sure the invertor only kicks in when the engine is running. As the inverter can be rather simple, the 24 1000W (or let's say 1500W to be safe), can be a more plain (cheaper) brand as Victron. Or do you see a benefit of using a Phoenix
Fringe benefit, I can boost the AC out 2400W of the multiplus to 3400W (or about) by running the engine, and while I drive my base equipment runs on the alternator, only using the mutiplus/battery/solar for powerassist , and for charging my living batteries with whatever is spare of the 1000W.
When connecting to a landline (or other 230V source), I disconnect the inverter and replace it with the landline, the UPS function makes this transparent on the ACout side.
Eventually I can add a low power 230V 24V charger to AC out, and use that to maintain the truck starter batteries during longer stops (e.g. think parked 6 Months between holidays). I don't risk to make a loop as when the engine runs, the charger will detect high voltage on the starter side, and quit charging.
I would put a CerboGX to tie stuff together, and it seems to me I could use that to eventually add a temperature sensor on the alternator which the GX could use to kill the inverter, e.g. by opening the cyrix.
Looking forward to your views, spend many hours reading, but only experience makes a master, and that I lack.
UPDATE: A potential weak point (to be checked in real life) could be the alternator overheating when having to deliver the 1000W with the engine @ idle => low rpm => low cooling => it gets too hot and brakes. In the this setup it seems the throttling of the 1000W could only be done, by cutting ACin (4.3 A being the minimum limit) on the multiplus or switching the inverter on-off (limit it to e.g. 500W makes no sense it seems to me, as this gets below the multiplus threshold) . This would be beter manageable in a charger based system, where you could throttle.
After reading all the documentation and contacting various distributors I have conflicting data regarding two Victron products.
Question 1 regarding the Buck-Boost DC-DC Converter 25A / 50A / 100A:
Can you change the output voltage (via USB) while the converter is delivering power or will the output shortly disconnect to apply the settings?
Use case: I need to change the voltage +/- 2/3v while the connected equipment is running.
Got different answers - if maybe someone has it on the table a quick test would provide the definitive answer. The output should be under load.
Question 2 regarding the Orion-Tr DC-DC Converters Isolated:
Some of the equipment is running on 36v. Because there is no step up converter with an output between 30 and 40v one option is to use three isolated DC-DC converters IN SERIES to provide the needed 36. In theory, being isolated, it should work.
Has anyone used a similar setup or has more information if it's the right thing to do?
There is no other option (from what I have found) to have a 36v output.
Appreciate the time, willing to help research anything if it solves the problems.
I will connect two 250/100 chargers and two 10,000 KVA Quattro inverters to my Pylontech batteries through busbars.
1. Will the two 250/100 MPPTs send to my batteries up to 250 volts/200 amps if connected in parallel or 500 volts/200 amps if connected as stand alone controllers?
2. Does the same principle apply to Quattros?
3. Is it okay to connect everything (i.e the 2 MPPTs, the 2 inverters and the batteries) through the same busbars?
I have read Wiring Unlimited and the relevant manuals.
What charge controller do you recommend for 2 solar panels 300W / 24V.
As it happens, my design is very similar to the example given by Victron in the Pylontech manual. The main differences are that I am using two MPPTs and two Quattros (instead of one MPTT and a Multiplus) and I have many PVs (up to 40 panels). So I have "stolen" the Victron schematic drawing and modified it accordingly. Now the questions:
1. Does the design make sense? It's for self-consumption. i.e use solar and batteries as the main source of power, with the grid as back-up and to keep the batteries topped-up.
2. I have ordered for eight Pylontech batteries (US3000). Following the advice of @DayAndNight and because the long (2 metres) Pylontech cables carry a maximum of 120 amps, I have decided to keep the batteries separated in two groups of four. I couldn't find anyone to make cables that carry more current. Moreover, the Pylontech BMS most likely limits the current. I plan to buy eight more Pylontech batteries. The plan is also to put these in two groups of four, so that I have four groups of fours. No question here.
3. I know where to put fuses, but I'm confused as regards the volts! According to various Victron documents, one should get a fuse ideally equal to the system voltage (in my case 48 volts) or the nearest higher equivalent (in my case 58 volts) and the relevant current rating in amps. But according to various websites including Littelfuse, a fuse can only protect wiring or equipment at its stated volts and amps. One should therefore get a fuse at the rated amps and volts (expected volts, not merely system volts). In my case, just one MPTT can output 250 volts and each of my batteries can output 58 volts (remember I have 8 batteries, potentially 16), all obviously more than the 48-system voltage. Most of the fuses go to 150 volts. There are fuses rated to 600 dc volts, but they cost more than 100 US dollars. Moreover, there are specifically-rated photovoltaic fuses which cost even more. What should I get?
4. The same question applies to busbars. Most busbars are not rated, some have amps but no volts (like Victron's) and the rated ones, at least in the US, go only to 150 volts (Blue Sea). I can get a busbar of 1000 amps quite easily, but low voltage. What should I get? I will be dealing with about 1000 DC amps and 1000 DC volts in the busbars as distribution points.
5. The Lynx Ion manual says you can get two Lynx Distributors only but it is quiet about the Power-in. Can you get two Power-ins (without the Lynx Ion shunt and without the Lynx Distributor) and use them as fused "distributors" instead? Do the Lynx Power-in and Distributor really have two busbars each? From the images, I see one "red" fused busbar (positive) and a would-be black (negative) busbar eaten up by space for wires and fuses for the positive line.
6. In terms of communication, the plan is the two MPPTs and the two Quattros to talk to each other and to the Pylontech BMS through the CCGX. The Victron schematic suggests this is possible though some of the manuals say otherwise. Is this possible? (I guess "yes"). Should I wire my loads to the first or second or both Quattros? It doesn't matter to me how they are wired provided they can monitored through one CCGX.
Thanks. Sorry for the many qurstions.
I'm currently planning my ac coupled 30kWp pv system.
I think about buying
2x 20kW Fronius 20.0-3-M with
3x Multiplus 2 5000VA inverter (one on each phase).
One fronius will be connected between grid and ac-in, the other (with max. 15kWp pv attached) to ac-out of the multis.
Will this comply with the factor 1.0 rule?
Will BOTH of the fronius inverters feed back to the grid, when the grid is available and the battery is full?
[image]Looking to hire/collaborate with a system designer who has previous experience designing a system for a motor yacht or sailboat. It can be globally based. We can collaborate over the internet using draw.io. I've created a rough diagram of my idea.
Please find my diagram here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_cgSoFykH7BRqq-ECAIdWs_vHTshDzvJ
I've posted the job here on UpWork where you can define your hourly rate for this job and get started right away securely:
Looking forward tow working with you :)
[image]We are 1 month old DIY Wizards seeking wisdom from the masters, I hope this diagram is appropriate to post here, if not I’ll remove. Im very excited to study such a new and expansive field of life. Mega fuses will be in the Lynx and some of these breakers may be removed. I’m currently studying BMS and current candidates are REC, Batrium, Smart123, and Orion.
I have an off-grid installation with 12 each of 18 VDC Solar PV panels producing 100Watts in direct sunlight (in the American Southwest, if that matters to you). My battery system is 4 each of 6 volt Duracell Ultra batteries which are wired series-parallel (producing 12VDC). I already own the MPPT 150/85 MCA, the feed wires are run, I have some 4-to-1 parallel cables which I was considering hooking 3 banks of 4 panels in parallel (there are 3 MCA input pairs on the unit)...
I believe that will produce 18-21V at about 22 amps per pair... which should be more than enough in theory to do what I need it to do if I understand my requirements correctly.
My question to you: Is there a more efficient way to charge these batteries with the current setup I have? I.E. - Should I do 6 banks of 2 panels in series (~36V), then parallel 2-to-1 down to the 3 inputs with 24V charging?
What is the best way to handle this considering my low wattage panels and the multitude of them?
12 of the following panels -
Optimal power [Pmax]: 100W(±5%)
Working voltage [Vmp]: 18V
Working current [Imp]: 5.62A
Short circuit current [Isc]: 5.97A
Open circuit voltage [Voc]: 21.6V
Dimensions: 105 x 54 x 0.25 cm/41.3 x 21.3 x 0.09 inch
Net weight: 2.6kg/5.73 lbs.
First post - A little guidance please on our design below:
We have 48 PV Panels each has an Enphase 215w micro inverter.
We have a genaration meter as part of our FIT
Our utility provider has installed a smart electricity meter to track half hourly usage
Would the below design work for us?
Our decision to connect the PV to the critical loads output (AC output 2) of the Quattro is to ensure the continuous supply from PV and battery in the event of a grid failure.
1) If we connected the panels to the Critical load, as mentioned in step 1 of the installation guide video at 7 minutes into it (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ess:quick-installation-guide) - Would this work without the need for the additional ET112 meter?
2) With this setup, would we have use of the CCGX to show system energy flows and be able to control the system via the CCGX?
Hi Guys, I’m new here to this community but I have read through some of the questions and answers and it seems like you guys know what you are talking about.
So, I thought I might share my story here and se if someone more knowledgably then me can have a look at my installation.
I´m in the process of preparing my Holyday Rambler (RV) for full time living with my family (Wife and two kids). After looking at Motorhomes here in Sweden we realised none of the existing motorhomes in our prize class hade the technical set up we wanted so we decided on a older American RV and then fixing it up and installing lithium battery with a new inverter and all that comes with it. And I Found a good dealer here in Sweden, so I ended up going all in Victron.
So That’s the story behind this noob asking questions.
I have used the Victron Volkswagen and some other drawings as referents when I did all the wiring. So now I only have some smaller installation work left before I need to configure this whole system but before hooking any power to this system, I’m hoping someone can give me and second opinions on my wiring diagram.
Thanks // Henrik
I want to add a pylontech battery system to my existing solar array , Im sick fed up of con artists trying to sell me things i dont want. where can I get the schematics and a simple layout of the components and what I need. can any one assist me in my plight!!!!! I have 32 panels connected 16 in series and 16 in parallel on 2 different roofs to maximise my solar time. I have 1 x 4 kw solar inverter . I get FIT tarrif so have to be care full to keep this element.
Would like advice for a set up of components for this microgrid ac coupling application:
Simulated Grid: Split phase - 240 volts, 60 Hz.
How many Victron Quattro needed?
How many Fronius Primo needed?
Battery bank size at 48 volts?
How many solar panels using 385 Wp Jinko Solar?
Battery combiner box type?
We need quantity of the major components for the load profile and daily consumption.
300 kWh daily consumption, 6 days a week, 10 hrs daily. Each AC unit will draw 5 kW of electrical power, times 6 units, means 30 kW demand.
Load profile: 6 inverter AC units, 60,000 BTU each.
Generator for back up: 60 kW (on site).
We want to prioritize in solar power most of the day, then batteries and last, the backup generator. The minimum generator usage, the better.
Battery bank should be able to work for itself in the worst scenario for at least 4 hrs.
Looking forward to hearing from you!
I'm at the design stage with my installation, I have some knowledge but not much experience hence I thought it may be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from the community. At the moment I have 6 solar modules 300w Voc=45.3 and 2x 24v 250Ah lifepo batteries I want to set up an ESS with the scope to selfconsume as much energy as possible since there's no more feed in tariff in UK. I'm also planning to get another 12 solar modules in the very near future but on different array/location. We don't have any grid loss, so no generator or other sources of energy are needed. I monitored my daily consumption and it's on average 7kw daily with peaks of 3.5kw except shower which is 10kw but is not reasonable to cover it with that size inverter. Ideally I would consider 5kva,
The question now is
Would you go for a 24 or 48V set up?
What inverters work best in ESS set up? the metering/current sensor will be about 32m away from inverter.
I'm leaning more towards a 48v for efficiency but choosing inverter I find a little confusing, if any more details are needed I'll be quick to add it
Much appreciate your time
Two separate PV micro-grids (A and B) are at over 1km apart. We want to connect them so that they can support each other, particularly at night, when either A or B might shut down due to low battery. Assuming conductors can be specified that keep voltage drop within limits:
Would it be possible to connect the Quattros from AC OUT 2 (A/B) to AC IN 1 (B/A) as in first figure attached if (i) 'AC ignore' enabled on AC IN 1 (ii) no feeding in from AC IN 1 (A/B) back to AC OUT 2 (B/A) and (ii) no charging of battery from AC IN 1?
Or would a more feasible approach be to isolate one of the Quattros (e.g. A) from the AC loads using contactors and a PLC, to allow the other Quattro (B) to support the AC loads in micro-grid A? (second figure)
Am looking for some advice so my layout of the components will offer the best DC voltage balance and optimal charging to the batteries.
was thinking of laying them in one line nest to each other as have the space - 2 x mppt - 1 x quattro - 2 x mppt - 1 x quattro - 2 x mppt - 1 x quattro - 1 x mppt
equal cable lengths from mppt to bus-bar and same for the quattro to bus-bar
having a solid copper 1000amp rated bus-bar 1 mtr long for both +ve and for the -VE
fuse breaks from the individual mppt and quattro onto the +ve bus-bar
each bluenova battery has 3 connection points each for +ve and -ve, again equal cable lengths battery to bus-bar - and space them in line with the quattro connections to the bus-bar
any advice would be great
Hi, I would appreciate some help on minimum battery sizing on a AC coupled system(linked to grid and generator - no feed back is allowed), we also have 4 x 250/100 Victron MPPT's contributing to the micro-grid system. I have recently taken over this system and it was sized by someone else. I am pretty sure the batteries quoted are not the correct minimum battery size.
There are three 10kva Quattro's, 1 x Fronius Symo 15kva 3phase, the above MPPT's and 28.8 kwp pv power. 14.4kwp is on the fronius and the rest split between the MPPT's. Am i right in thinking that the minimum battery size for this system would be approximately 92kwh? The batteries we are using are Blue Nova lithium batteries. Any help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Some years ago, my yacht had a 'little' lightning strike, and the effect to my complicated electronics was extensive. I am an EE, so I have fixed most of the items myself, and made an interesting project out of it!
My observation was that the ground side of the power input circuit was the only damaged item on the sensitive electronic items (B&G displays, NMEA multiplexor, fridge controller, almost anything with a status LED, etc.) A change of the input diode or regulator fixed many things.
I don't want to start a debate about protecting a boat from lightning, as I think it is pretty much impossible. But I can confirm that I have a heavy copper connection from my keel-stepped mast to my lead keel.
Now that I am re-wiring to accommodate my lovely LFP batteries and new Victron system, I am considering adding an isolated DC-DC converter to a small 12V battery to drive all the electronics. My main objective would be to have a "floating earth" for that separate system.
I am hoping that the DC-DC converter would die 'when' I next get struck, and it would save all the other electronics.
Would this be a likely case? I don't expect any guaranties, but wondered if anyone could comment that this is a possible path to go. Given that I am redoing all the wiring it is not a big issue to isolate the "Electronics GND wire"
Thanks for your thoughts..
Dear All, I have a project with a large scale, Victron offer support for project design?
After some information as to how the above components will react together in a ac coupled off grid system?
I understand frequency shifting will restrict the pv from the Fronius
How does this perform or react if there is a generator running for supplementary battery charging ?
what do you use to do the Drawing-System-Schema-Design of your electrical system?
looking to do mind on paper for reference
I am confirming my Solar/Alternator charging setup/sytem before I install this weekend.
I have a stock E-450 Box truck with a 130amp alternator and typical starting battery as my platform.
I am in need of the following from my system.
Auxilliary Batteries have the following function requirements.
My proposed setup is as follows
To connect both the input from the 200 Watt Solar Panels and the 130amp Alternator to the input on a 200-2 Argofet Battery Isolator to primarily charge the Output 1 Starting Battery, and to isolate that battery from the auxiliary battery bank (output 2) until it has achieved the desired voltage. The battery bank will be connected to a BP100 to limit its voltage drop so as to keep the auxiliary batteries from outputting voltage to an unrecoverable state. The BP 100 would be wired to an auxiliary fuse block from the auxiliary battery bank to output to the various lighting, inverters and others accessories.
This design would hopefully charge the batteries with both DC sources (even simultaneously with car running and panels charging) charging the batterie/s.
If I am totally incorrect about this basic design, please let me know where I have goofed!
I have searched for this setup but could find no real information!
Thank you in advance!
Hi, apologies in advance for the all the scatter gun questions!
Hopefully someone here might be able to help me to size and choose the right equipment for a bill of materials.
I know what they say about assumptions but, let us assume that I need to operate consuming approximately 27.5kWh.
Our energy supply costs for the year are on track to come in at £30K+ per annum, at least whilst we continue to consume nearly all of this power direct from the grid. With that in mind we need to design and build an energy storage system that would help to reduce this particular operating cost significantly.
Based on my research to date I seem to be on the right track, but given the likely sum of our intended investment I would like to make sure that I am not undersizing or oversizing (or going wildly over budget!)
The intention is to scale up to generate and provide up to a 15kW input from renewable energy (wind/solar/biomass). But would this be able to provide enough charge assuming I can consistently supply the 15kW, whilst consuming 27.5kWh?
I read somewhere that there is usually a need to respect a 40/60 ratio in charge vs consumption, but if this is incorrect then someone please correct me! :) Also do Li-ion batteries allow for a much better performance in this respect?
Anyway, I am looking at the Victron Quattro 48/15000-200-100/100 15KW off-grid solar to run alongside a suitably sized battery bank (vendor/size suggestions welcome).
So, is this a wise product choice, and would we be able to run on continuous mains power via the Victron Quattro + battery bank storage for our power needs, until we have all the other RE components in place?
Is it OK to use a Power Control device to control the power consumed by a 3Kw resistive heating element on a Quattro 8kw inverter? https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/1525/0900766b81525963.pdf
My concern is EMI and waveform deformation on the inververter output.
If above is problematic, can a zero crossing Power Control deivce (SSR) be less of a problem than a Phase Angle fired SSR?