How long can a Quattro Inverter Charger 48v Input 5000va power a surge of anything between 5000Watts and Peak power 10000Watts?

The reason I ask is that the Schneider XP Pro can hold a 8500 Watt for 30 minutes and it is rated at 6800Watts.

Thanks

Scat

Hi,

I read some messages with a Multiplus overloaded at lower power than nominal power.
I read documents from Victron with max power at 130% of nominal power (during 30min).

So I am looking for installation feedback to figure out what is the real capabilities.

What is the nominal/maximum power (for how long) you get from your three phase Multiplus system on DC supply ?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

In our application, the load may pull short peaks of power that are 5 times the continuous rating of the Victron inverters. The inverters shut down momentarily, then recover. That cause flicker, which is undesirable.

Of course, we could stack up more inverters to power these short peaks.

But, we are exploring the alternative of adding a 3-phase motor and a flywheel to the 3-phase line to power these peaks and keep the inverters from flickering off and on.

Is that reasonable? Do you have any experience to share in this regard? Can you recommend an off-the-shelf product to do that? A "ride-through generator"? A "synchronous condenser"?

I looked at a flywheel UPS, but that includes high power inverters, and that defeats the goal of not having to add mode Victron Inverters to our system.

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Thank you,

Davide

Hello!

Like many others, I have a small fridge which is creating such a surge when the compressor kicks in that it hits the inverter (Phoenix 12/800) too hard.

The solution would be a soft-start module between the fridge and inverter. I am only finding these at around 16A current limitation. This would mean a peak wattage limit (~3500W) above what the fridge is creating anyway, and still higher than the peak the inverter can handle.

Is my reasoning correct?

Or, would a common 16A soft-start module do the trick anyway?

Or, can you recommend any low amp (by my maths, less than 6A) soft-start modules to keep the peak below inverter peak?

Thanks in advance!

H

Hello!

I have a setup running a Phoenix 12/800. It is all running very nicely with one issue:

We have a very small (43L) Ikea fridge/freezer which uses only about 30W continuous power when on. The problem is, when it cycles to ON (ie compressor kicks in), it demands such a peak that the inverter jumps into the red zone of the meter (bluetooth app) for about half a second before coming way back down to 30W. In this time the inverter is clearly struggling and the lights dim etc! While plugged in, the fridge cycles on/off once every 5-10 minutes. Naturally we have now disconnected the fridge.

• Is there some utility to 'absorb' / 'smooth' this peak as not to stress the inverter so much? Will a surge protector do this, or just turn off?
• Are there fridges with smoother / softer peaks, or is this a universal issue?

FYI: Battery bank is 3x 280Ah 12V, with 35mm2 wire connecting. Wire from battery bank to inverter is 25mm2, which i believe is the largest you can fit into the connectors on the inverter housing.

Update: some have recommended soft start modules, if anyone can recommend a specific unit I would be grateful!

Many thanks for any input!

H

Hi all,

So i'm running into a bit of a issue with the behavior of the system. I'm pretty sure this is intended but still wanted to ask for options.

Little introduction

I have a 3 Phase system setup (3x Multiplus II) backed by 30kwh lifepo4 batteries which are charged by the MPPT RS inverter. I'm using a EM24 to measure grid power even though my whole house is behind the victron installation.

My grid connection is 3x25A and one of the goals of getting this system is to not have to upgrade to a 3x40A connection which would cost me 700 euros a year. My house is fully electric (no gas connection), electric cooking, electric heating, electric car, heatpump for pool.

This means I have a lot of consumers that if turned on at the same time can trip the breakers. Since i sell power to the grid for 1:1 (untill 2025), the main reasons for the system was 1: UPS functionality, 2: saves 700 euros a year on a higher grid connection bill. 3: Was building a new house, so it was the perfect time to get all the wiring in and 4: Being ready for when i no longer sell to the grid at 100% rate.

The issue

I'm generally running a 75% Minimum SoC with a 0W Grid set point. Excess PV is delivered to the grid. Usually in the evening it reaches the minimum SoC. Once it reaches the minimum SoC it seems like input current limit is completely ignored. This means if when the minimum SoC is reached, my breakers can trip when multiple loads are on at the same time.

In my opinion, the input current limit should always be respected, almost as a same priority as grid failure (Since it in 99% of cases leads to grid failure, why else would you configure a input current limit).

The expected behavior for me would be that if a peak load needs to take from the batteries below the minimum state of charge on 1 or multiple phases. It starts assisting on the phases that require it. If there are phases available that have extra capacity left, it can convert AC to DC to supplement the DC requirement for the peak shaving phase. If this is not sufficient (maybe all phases are overloaded) it can take energy from the battery beyond the minimum SoC. Since if it does not do so, theres a risk the grid goes down and having to take from batteries regardless. After the peak load is gone it could top up the batteries back to the minimum state of charge using the grid (not beyond). Since I want the DC coupled solar only to top the battery up to 100% minimizing inverter losses.

Ideally, i'd want to have a minimum SoC for self consumption and a second minimum SoC for power assist to minimise inverter losses. E.g. discharge to 75% for self consumption, then discharge to 50% for peak shaving. If battery is at 50%, still allow peak shaving however when possible use grid to charge back to 50%.

Is what i'm experiencing intended?

Does anyone have any advice or recomendations?

I have 2 Quattros, a Cerbo, & a Smartshunt. I'm integrating them into my existing system, replacing dual Trace SW4048s. The rest of the system is a 30kwh LiFePO4 battery with its own BMS, an AC-coupled PV inverter, and DC solar panels with their own Outback charge controllers. Split-phase 120/240, approved for Net Metering (my system feeds power into the grid) by my utility.

We have different $ rates for times of day: highest ('peak') rate 4pm to 9pm (16:00 to 21:00), a mid-peak 15:00 to 16:00 and 21:00 to 00:00. So the lowest $ rate is 'off-peak' which is 00:00 to 15:00.

I'll charge from the grid during off-peak, and sell any excess made by the sun during off-peak. Then I'll 'sell' to the grid (feed-in to the grid) from the batteries ONLY during peak. I want to discharge the batteries nearly completely (down to 10%) during those 5 hours of peak.

If I charge my batteries from 00:00 until 15:00, starting at 00:00, I can be certain I'll have full charge available when it is time to sell to the grid at 16:00, regardless of the weather or what loads during the day might consume power in my house during the day.

Using ESS, I see I can schedule battery charging. But what about battery selling to the grid? What setting (somewhere else in ESS? outside of ESS?) will keep the batteries full, running loads only from my solar and from the grid, during off-peak, so the batteries can then deliver their full charge during peak?

This kind of peak-shaving schedule stuff is pretty common with utility companies here in California. How do other people set this up with their Victron's?

Hi,

I've seen some conflicting threads on the below question.

What is the max load I can attach to multiplus ii 5000Va? Assuming I have grid attached 24/7.

AC-in notes 50amp input (aka max 230*50 = 11,500W)

What loads can multiplus ii output for this model. Manuals seems to say the below option 1 below assuming grid is connected all the time.

1. Is it 50amps (11,500w) from ac-in plus the inverter element 5kva (5000/230 = 22amp) being total output circ: 72amps (16500watts)

Or

2. Is 50amps total (11,500w)

Or

3. 22amps (5000w)

I understand if grid goes down then inverter can only output 5kva option 3 but I'm more curious as to what the peak output is.

I think I'm confusing pass through vs power assist.

I'm trying to size a multiplus/quattro for peak loads of 16000Watts

Thanks,

Matt

I'm running a Kostal Piko 20 which delivers a max of 18kW in summer; since it's a 3-phase converter, I've started looking at running three MultiPlus II 5000 accordingly. However taking the factor 1.0 rule into account, three would not be enough in theory, since the system may deliver 18kW while those would only cover 15kW. To quote the guide,

(...) At that moment the PV inverter will continue operating at full power until the AC frequency has been increased. Increasing this frequency will take a very short time, but during that time all power will be directed into the batteries as there is no other place for it to go.

According to the data sheet, one MultiPlus II 5000 however can deliver 9000W peak power; am I understanding this right that if

• the battery isn't fully loaded and
• it can absorb 18kW of power and
• the PV inverter "immediately" lowers its power output once the MultiPlus starts increasing the frequency,

I should be fine with such a setup, since each inverter would have to handle "only" 6kW of peak power? If not, what am I missing?
The data sheet unfortunately does not mention the time frame the inverter can handle the peak load of 9kW for; has there any testing been conducted with Kostal or does someone know that this is a setup that works in practice?

Thanks!
J.

Hello,

I'm having a small issue since the beginning of my (near) offgrid installation. Everytime the fridge compressor needs to start, it is very much noticeable on the lights. They flicker a little too much compared to what I wanted to be ideal.

Of course, this is expected to some degree. One must design system with a sufficient margin for the load peaks. My inverter was initially a 24/3000. I later added another one in parallel. They are fairly balanced, so I expect that now I have a system better or equal to an 24/5000. Further down the road, I improved the cabling to batteries from 50mm2 to 70mm2, and just about 1m lenght to busbar + 50cm to inverters. Even the fuse I passed from 250A to 300A to reduce resistance. Later on, I even changed to LiFEPO4 batteries (14kWh), with reduced internal resistance...

Well, even with all these improvements, although it got slightly better after each step, I never managed to remove the flicker on the lights to the extent I really wanted. In fact, I have a small impression (hope I'm wrong) that is getting slowly worse rather than better. Does anyone believe that is anything wrong with my system? Only about 3 years old. Could it be Multiplus capacitors or any other component is showing "tireness" due to the fridge constant startups all day long during the past years?

Below an example that makes the lights flicker. The voltage seems to go too low with too much ease for this kind of load. It's a ~150W fridge. I'm kinda worried. Or am I expecting too much?

[image]