question

Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard asked

Unexpected regular Multi II 48/5000 quick shutdown

screenshot-20221112-120230-vrm.jpgscreenshot-20221112-120153-vrm.jpgscreenshot-20221112-120309-vrm.jpgStrange behaviour I cannot explain .

System is

Multi II 48/5000

2 X 435 W panels on 150/35 in 2S

4x 435w panels in 2s2p on 150/35

2 x Pylontech UP5000

Cerbo GX

.....

Connected to grid as AC IN.

No output or export to grid

VS settings


System installed 1 month ago. very similar to many other systems we installed with same components.

all worked well until yesterday. client called saying system went off 3 times in the morning , then quickly came back in by itself after a few seconds.

I checked online via vrm. indeed noticed these ve bus alarms (low battery) . investigated and found the cerbo was only seeing 1 of the 2 pylontech.

the batteries were never low, and still have not been.

client is far. talked to him. made him check the pylontech data cables : Pylon 1 to pylon 2 short cable and pylon to cerbo victron blue ve can type A cable.

found that pylontech data cable linking 1 battery to the other had its terminal a bit loose. connected correctly . turned back ON. All seemed ok and could see back the 2 pylon on cerbo .



but it did the same yesterday and again today.see screenshots .

main difference is that cerbo sees well the 2 batteries. all pylontech parameters look perfect.

looks like the system is loosing bms parameters. anybody had issues with victron cables typea for pylontech up 5000 ?

any other bright idea ?


grateful for some feedback

Multiplus-IIcerbo gxPylontechalarm
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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ commented ·
@Herve RV Nizard

Firmware on the inverter?

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image Herve RV Nizard Alexandra ♦ commented ·
v 4.97
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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Herve RV Nizard commented ·

Interesting.

The low battery warnings is usually because of loose terminals or other connection on the battery. As you found.

Or can be caused by ESS dynamic cut off values being too conservative for the set loads.

With the type A cable are you using the premade ones? Pylontecs on their batteries require pins 1-3 to be empty (explicitly stated in their manual) so that may be your issue with comms.


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10 Answers
Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

Thanks Alexandra. I am using the victron specific cable for the UP5000 (Type A).

I never touched the Pylontech pins on any of those we installed ( may be 20 systems with 1 to 8 batteries) ! . I may have to do some more research on that side.

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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ commented ·

Check the bms CCL qnd DCL in the advanced widgets and see if it is influencing the shutdown @Herve RV Nizard




screenshot-20221113-143932.jpg

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image Herve RV Nizard Alexandra ♦ commented ·

screenshot-20221113-091022-vrm.jpgthanks Alexandra. I checked the charge/discharge limits and there are no changes. today stopped at 3 36 am to 5.44am. see picsscreenshot-20221113-091012-vrm.jpg

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sharpener avatar image
sharpener answered ·

You are not the only one to experience problems with Pylontech cables, see here

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image Herve RV Nizard commented ·
thanks. interesting.
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Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

screenshot-20221113-075312-vrm.jpgfyi it's getting worse and stayed off a few hours last night. screenshot-20221113-075237-vrm.jpg


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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ commented ·

What are the dynamic cut off voltages set in ESS?

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

Hi Alexandra ; Thanks . No ESS here ; using Virtual switch . Low voltage inverter shut down is at 48 v . Never reached so far below 49 + v .


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Herve RV Nizard answered ·

Follow up: It has become worse with more shut down, and staying longer OFF . See below picture for last night . I can only go on site tomorrow . Customer had no power during shut down as his AC IN is wired via the Multiplus . Based on Daniël Boekel comcapture-decran-2022-11-14-a-112044.pngments on AC IN / Inverting , as soon as the system came back ON , I forced AC IN by removing Virtual switch settings from VRM access . Now AC is on passthru . And "so far" , it seems to hold . ??? Does it change something for any of you in the troubleshooting approach ? capture-decran-2022-11-14-a-112122.png


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Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

Could this happen if the Cerbo is faulty ? Client tells me he "thinks" he noticed that the Cerbo was OFF just before the system went off yesterday ... If Cerbo is OFF, indeed , the Multi looses BMS information . He may think battery is low and shuts down ? When checking the errors on the remote console , it says low battery, and it says Error # 67 : BMS com lost for both charge controllers ? Just trying to think of everything and what to bring with me !!!

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Its more likely the battery is shutting off and taking the cerbo with it. You can restart a gx and it won’t break anything, system just goes into passthrough. If shutting off a cerbo was a problem, systems would break every time software was updated. You can also check the manual settings in the inverter/chargers. Without a cerbo they will all revert to that (if set, a gx will automatically restart on comms failure, that can be a common reason for a reboot).

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image Herve RV Nizard commented ·

screenshot-20221113-074612-vrm.jpg

error 67

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Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

Fun part now ! Went on site with 2 new Pylontech UP5000 with the idea of swapping them and bring the 2 others to our lab to investigate . Did so. Left the customer's place back to lab . Not even reached , got a call from customer saying exact same problem happened ! So now : 1- Installed one of the 2 initially "faulty" batteries at our lab and monitoring the system. So far, after 5 hours . All seem fine . 2. Tomorrow will connect the computer to the battery and download data . Then plan to test the 2nd battery alone , and then, finally, put them back together and monitor. System by the customer is for now forced on AC IN (passthru) and working well like that !!! Back to the drawing board to try to understand what can be wrong.


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Herve RV Nizard avatar image
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

So here below it shows it happened again a few times with the same "low battery alarm" although : The system was on passthru . batteries were at 100% . Inverter was never "inverting" . And these are brand new Pylontech UP5000 batteries .


capture-decran-2022-11-16-a-113127.png


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Herve RV Nizard answered ·

For info, we don't find any evidence of issue on the battery side . However, interestingly we ran a test and disconnected the power supply of the Cerbo (to simulate a Cerbo fault) while having the inverter on "inverting" , with VS settings . . I can confirm the inverter would shut down after a little while . That's on our bench ; not by the customer . With our test inverter and cerbo working seamlessly.

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Herve RV Nizard answered ·

for those interested in the results of the test ; the problem comes from the cerbo. the cerbo works; it's on and works. it seems it regularly sends wrong information to the multi and to the mppt's , making them think the batteries are low or off ( bms error 67 on mppt , low voltage alarm on multi). accordingly, when on inverting mode, the multi ends by shutting down and stays off for a few minutes. with red alarm low battery voltage lit. it then starts back on its own. we tested the same cerbo with 3 different systems and it always happen . unable for now to say why or what exactly is wrong with the cerbo, but no doubts it's the culprit !

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