Can GX generator start/stop feature control AC in of Quattro?

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jurjenhoekstra asked Apr 15, '21

Can GX generator start/stop feature control AC in of Quattro?

Hello all,

For a setup on a yacht, I want to control the AC in 2 of the Quattro so that during the sunny hours of the day, the shore power does not charge the Quattro. The result is that during the day only my solar panels charge the batteries.

I enabled in the Venus GX the feature generator start/stop, in such a way that the generator starts at 18.00 and stops at 08.00 hrs. I then set AC in 2 in the GX to generator. I am assuming this then controls relay 1 of the GX and switches it on and off based upon the indicated hours.

I then wired relay 1 of the GX to the auxilary relay of the Quattro.

With VE-configure, I added the following assistant to the Quattro:

Will this work? Will the AC in 2 be ignored from 08.00 till 18.00 hrs?

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger Generator Venus GX - VGX

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Paul B answered · Apr 16, 2021 at 10:50 AM

This is my setup if its on any help

The relay 1 and relay 2 turn a external contactor on and off . the contactor is used to isolate the PV inverter if the voltage at the battery goes high from overcharge, just a catch all saftey feature. As sometimes I am finding that the frequency shift does not occur quick enough and thus voltage goes high

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jurjenhoekstra commented · Apr 16, 2021 at 12:44 PM

Thanks Paul B, I'll study this. Tomorrow I am back at the yacht and I will continue experimenting (if there is sufficient sun).

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Answer 1 · 2021-04-15T13:01:10Z

Paul B answered · Apr 15, 2021 at 01:01 PM

yes it can

I would move the general flag to position 1 in the list though and test it out,

I use it all the time

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jurjenhoekstra commented · Apr 16, 2021 at 10:22 AM

Hello Paul B,

Thanks for your response. I implemented the situation as I described, but I am not getting the result I expected. The generator (actually shore power) does not switch on or off at the times programmed. I think it has to do with the way I defined the relays. I hard wired the Normally Open end of the GX relay to the Normally Open end of the Quattro.

I then have in the 1st assistant:
-Use general flag to ignore AC in 2

In the 2nd assistant:
-Use general flag
-Set relay on
-when auxiliary input is open for 10 seconds

In the 3rd assistant:
-Use general flag
-Set relay off
-when auxiliary input is closed for 10 seconds

With these assistant the generator/shore power is off, but does not switch on or off at the desired times.

When I change in the 2nd assistant Set relay to off and in the 3rd the relay to on, the generator/shore power is on, but does switch off at the desired time.

Any help is appreciated.

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jurjenhoekstra commented · Apr 22, 2021 at 01:57 PM

Thanks Paul, but the general flag position has to be last I experienced, otherwise it does not work.

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Answer 2 · 2021-04-15T14:00:19Z

JohnC answered · Apr 15, 2021 at 02:00 PM

Hi @jurjenhoekstra

Given it was probably me that coerced you to head this way..

Like Paul B says.

What you name ACIN2 in the GX may determine where VRM applies your historical data. So if you want continuity there just leave it set to whatever you had before. It should have no bearing on the GX relay.

What you could also consider is adding in another pair of prog relay entries to restart ACIN2 if/while your batt V gets too low, say because of a heavy load or really bad sun. A 'failsafe', hey..

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jurjenhoekstra commented · Apr 16, 2021 at 10:09 AM

Hello JohnC,

Yes, because you suggested to switch shore power of during solar hours, I came up with the idea of using the generator start/stop feature of the GX. This offers the possibility for quiet hours and by defining the quiet hours from 08.00-18.00 hours, the shore power can be switched off.

In that same feature, it allows certain conditions under which the generator should ignore quiet hours. So there I defined that if the load is larger then 1200 W for 60 seconds, the generator should start. If less then 1200 W for 30 seconds, the generator should switch off.

I see what you mean by leaving AC in 2 as Grid in stead off Generator, as I am now missing the input for the historical data.

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JohnC ♦ jurjenhoekstra commented · Apr 16, 2021 at 11:47 AM

@jurjenhoekstra

Yeh, and I'm suitably impressed by how you've jumped straight in and worked out how to do it yourself. Well done!

Just testing and tweaking now to find that balance in your system..

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Answer 3 · 2021-04-22T14:07:22Z

jurjenhoekstra answered · Apr 22, 2021 at 02:07 PM

It now works. I struggeld first with wiring the Venus GX relay to the AUX 1 of the Quattro. I used the Common and NC connection of the GX relay 1 and connected it to + and - of AUX 1 and this did the trick. I further enabled in the GX the use of the Generator start/stop functionality which switches on or off the relay 1. Then I added quiet hours from 08.00 to 18.00 hours. I further enabled that if the load is higher then 1200 W for 15 seconds, then the Generator (relay 1) switches on. Consequently the AUX 1 of the Quattro is now high and I programmed the Quattro with an assistant that if AUX 1 is high then AC 2 (shore power) kicks in. If load lower then 1200 W for more then 15 seconds, then AUX 1 is low and the assistant knows to ignore AC2.

Further if SoC lower then 80/75 %, then Quattro charger will start and charge till 90 %.

I can also manually with the Remote Console switch the generator (actually AC 2 of Quattro which is shore power) on and off.

This thread can be closed.

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pedro costoya commented · Nov 25, 2022 at 06:36 PM

Hi @jurjenhoekstra

first of all, #hatsoff for the conversation you brought to the forum and the clever solution. TOP :)
I'm new on this, not savy, but this has been my top worry after my installation was running. I have a PV instalation with batteries in a house. My Multi uses around 1Kw/day from the grid, and I would like it to be feeded by the PV & batteries as long as possible.

Your solution is super clever; I've thinking about it for three weeks --and in the meantime learining how to use VE3 & connecting to Multi-- and I have already connected Gerbo with the Multi Aux1

As I have unterstood it:

- Multi ignores AC on low load need

- Gerbo is scheduled to start a "generator" that needs power supply on stablished hours

- Multi detects this load need and allows AC use

- Gerbo then charge the batteries

My question:

1. Which option did you use here? I was planning to use "drive aux relay" but it does not allow me to use assistants, so I assume you can run all this with "Do not use VS".

2. Could you provide us with a capture of your assistant set, like @Paul B did? this was Paul one :) Im interested because he is still using ESS :)

Thank you very very much.

My instalator said this cannot be done and I'm learning as much as I can do --there's have to be a way!

regards, Pedro from Barcelona

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Paul B pedro costoya commented · Nov 26, 2022 at 07:45 AM

keep in mind you cant use virtual switch and assistants its one or the other.

also you should look at the addon GUIMods By Kevin as well as this may have some options that may or maynot help

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/144073/generator-overview-enhancements.html?childToView=171356#comment-171356

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Answer 4 · 2022-11-26T12:53:46Z

jurjenhoekstra answered · Nov 26, 2022 at 12:53 PM

Hello Pedro, yes, you can not use VS if you want to use assistants. So choose: Do not use VS. My assistants are in the last picture of the post, they are the 5 assistants I programmed. Although looking back, I have my doubts why I put the assistants 3 and 4 in there, they might be redundant. The actual switching on/off of the shore power is done by the settings in the GX device, see the screenshots in the post. Bear also in mind that I have a setup for on a yacht, there is no feedback from the PV to the grid. I do not use the option ESS.

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Answer 5 · 2022-11-26T15:36:06Z

pedro costoya answered · Nov 26, 2022 at 03:36 PM

Wow thanks @jurjenhoekstra

I’m not inyecting to the grid either, nice to check this also :)

about reviewing assistant 3 and 4, did you mean 4 and 5? If so it is clear to me — I was still trying to understand in fact 4 and 5, Why would you set an order involving SoC limit when generator already does this?

I think this can work for me, i’ll try it as soon as I feel confident enough!

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jurjenhoekstra commented · Nov 26, 2022 at 04:29 PM

Hello Pedro, I remember now what the intent of assistant 4 and 5 are, they are not redundant. It is specific for my situation on the boat. In the system on the boat, I have a Victron Quattro installed. It has an AC OUT1 and AC OUT 2.

In normal circumstances you would connect most electrical users to AC OUT 1. Heavy users, such as maybe an oven, microwave, washing machine, etc. are to be connected to AC OUT 2. As long there is shore power/grid or an actual generator running (connected to AC IN 1), there is power supplied to AC OUT 2. But if shore power/grid or generator are not available (when the yacht is cruising), AC OUT 2 is disconnected and the heavy users cannot drain your batteries.

Even though in daytime when only the batteries and PV provide power, I sometimes want to use the microwave (connected to AC OUT 2). In order to make that happen I had to add assistant 4 and 5, they switch AC OUT 2 on and off. So as long as the batteries are above 75 %, I can use the microwave, below 75 % AC OUT 2 and the heavy users are disconnected from power.

Hope this does not cause confusion for you. If you are using a Victron Multiplus (has only one AC OUT), it would suffice to just have assistant 1-3.

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andy-2xs jurjenhoekstra commented · Feb 01 at 03:18 AM

Hi All

Apologies if this has already been addressed.

I applaud your solution outlined by @jurjenhoekstra & Pedro, but it does seem that it should not be necessary to disconnect from shore power (using contactortor etc) or to use the generator start/stop to achieve the goal of optimising power utilisation from the solar panels and MPPT over shore power. I would suggest that this is such a common use case that it could be a standard Victron configuration item for both Quattro and Multiplus.

As I understand the requirement, it would require the Multi/Quattro to dynamically load share between shorepower & solar chargers/inverter, with solar having priority and while maintaining battery at float. - (Not sure if this might compromise anti-islanding provisions???)

If this is not currently possible, then is it a possible future solution with Dynamic ESS (without using Grid feed-in or market pricing)?

Many thanks

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jurjenhoekstra andy-2xs commented · Feb 02 at 12:11 PM

Hello Andy, Victron has incorporated automatic optimising the charging of the batteries with priority for solar panels while connected to shore power, through the DVCC function. But I noticed at some point that on a sunny day, if I switched of the shore power, the solar panels would charge the batteries with approx. 150-200 Watts more.

I therefore tried to find a solution that during the day the shore power would be automatically switched off and batteries would solely be charged with the power from the solar panels. This also minimises the cost for the shore power, which is very expensive in my harbour. The solution is described in this thread. Only if Victron succeeds in better optimising the DVCC function can the above solution be thrown over board.

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Answer 6 · 2022-11-26T16:37:06Z

pedro costoya answered · Nov 26, 2022 at 04:37 PM

Many thanks @jurjenhoekstra!

Yes, complex but 100% explained and understood for your boat case.

I have an multiplus, so great to go with 1-3, thanks for clarifying this to make me thing easy, #hatsoff

I’ll let you know how it ends! Thanks again and greetings from Barcelona!

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