I've assembled a few systems but this is the first system I've specced. It's designed for a small van (Renault Trafic) with a fairly small demand - USB chargers, fridge, heater.
Orion-tr 30A, SmartSolar 75/15, BlueSmart 12/17, BatteryProtect 12/24-65A, BMV-700, 100Ah AGM battery.
I'm not sure whether I need a BMS or not.
hi @Osian diagram looks like a nice neat solution. You won’t need a BMS as you are not using Lithium batteries. You might benefit from a small isolation/fuse for the incoming PV link so that you can safely and easily isolate the solar panels. Lastly I assume by ‘heater’ you are referring to a diesel fuel heater that you are supplying power to operate the fan or something similar - if you want to use the battery to generate heat you are talking a significant power draw. Have fun.
@Osian :
In this scheme, if there is no solar input how are you going to prevent that the Victron AGM battery is not going to be charged from the Renault Traffic Bosch starter battery when the engine is not running ? If it is a recent Traffic it has a modern alternator which is managed by the Traffic´s engine management system / CAN bus, and there is no D+ signal to indicate that the engine is running ..... ? If the Orion takes up to 30A from the starter battery, you may/will end up with a dead starter battery ?
I´ve considered doing something similar in an even smaller van (a Renault Kangoo, with start/stop system) and my Renault garage strongly advised me not to connect directly to the starter battery, but only via the cigarette lighter (accessoiries) circuit. In this way it is taken into account by the engine management system as an ordinary consumer, but obviously you´re limited to 10A max.....
Putting it onto an accessory circuit won't limit how much it can draw, it will overload the circuit capability and blow the fuse. The cable isn't designed for such a draw, so if you do put a larger fuse in it will melt the cable. I could use a relay so it is switched with the accessory circuit but I don't think its necessary.
Take a look at the Orion documentation.
The Renault garage clearly does not understand how it works. It will not start charging until it detects charge voltage from the alternator at the leisure battery. You have quite a few options to control it, but depletion of the starter battery won't happen unless you force it to happen by really bad configuration. Generally it's better/easier to go direct from the starter battery to the Orion. But wherever you take the Orion input from, the wiring must be suitably sized.
The usual problem we see here is improperly set up Orions not charging the leisure battery. I've not seen one where the Orion has caused problems with the starter battery.
@Osian : @kevgermany :
OK, if it is an 2004 Traffic I agree you should not have problems.
(Much) later model have completely different alternators (here sometimes referred as ¨Euro 5/6¨ alternators) with variable speed drive. The variable speed is controlled by the engine management system based on various parameters such as consumers switched on (head lights, etc), battery state, outside temperature, engine temperature, etc. I.e. the alternator speed is no longer solely based on the speed of the direct drive belt. For example, with low outside temperatures and headlights switched on, the start/stop system in my 2019 Kangoo will automatically be deactivated. Similarly, directly after first starting the engine (engine temperature still very low) it will be de-activated, etc. If with such a system you connect a consumer (Orion or something else) directly to the starter battery it can not be taken into account by the engine management system. It only sees an unusual voltage drop of the battery and will for example switch off the start/stop system thinking there is a problem with a weak battery .....
Also, vehicles with a Euro5/6 alternator typically have lower voltages, because the alternator only charges to a minimum level required. These start/stop systems and variable drive alternators were invented for fuel economy, but are very sensitive and have negative aspects as well (alternator wears out more quickly). According to the Renault guy my 1968 Volvo Amazon has a much more solid and reliable system .... (which I can only confirm).
You are right that the Orion will never completely drain the starter battery, but it may affect other functions. I choose the word ¨drain¨ very poorly.
This is why some manufacturers (Stirling, EnergyMobile, etc) invented other systems such as vibration sensors to make sure that the leisure battery is only charged when the engine is running. These are reported to work unreliably however, and in particular will not do any good when you take the car on a ferry or similar environment where there are continuous vibrations.
Your are right that the cigarette lighter circuit (nr 15) has very thin wiring. It´s typically fused with 15A and most car manufacturers stipulate a maximum of 10A for consumers connected to this circuitry (which still seems a lot to me, given the very thin wiring). Note that with ignition on, on but engine not started, this circuit is powered, so a separate manual switch may be a good idea.
It can be switched manually, just needs a feed from a switched circuit. Easiest usually radio.
It also recognises input voltage. I.e. alternator charging. And decides whether or not to charge based on this.
Most of the smart alternator problems here have been Ford Transits. I've not seen one for Renaults.
I did check the Orion docs.
The Victron voltage detection scheme is better than the vibration sensor or other solutions used by other manufacturers. Your positive experience with Renaults is useful and hopeful. Experience always is !
However, I would advise against a manual switch on/off via the radio circuit (=typically part of the accesory circuit 15, which is powered the moment the ignition is on (but the engine has not necessarily been started ....)). The only real proof that the engine is running is the D+ signal but that´s only available on older style alternators, not on Euro 5/6 alternators (which unfortunately seem to work differently with different manufacturers - no standard for engine management systems / CAN bus). So radio / acessory circuit switching for remote on/off is not 100% reliable (although you may argue that most of the time you only switch on the ignition in order to start the engine .... but not always).
But if the Victron voltage detection scheme works well with Renaults : great ! I may reconsider my design for in-vehicle charging of the mobile power station I am building .... especially since it avoids using the flimsy wiring of the accesory circuit which would limit me to < 10A.
Thanks.-
Btw my Renault comments are not seen here, not it works. You may find differently.
I believe you want the main battery fuse located before the battery isolation switch, not after; wired as close to the battery positive post as possible and in any event no more than ~180cm from the post.
You don't specify wire sizes. If you have not already anticipated this, various online calculators and phone apps will give you the correct sizing for your run lengths. For a small installation like yours, go ahead and use a 3% voltage drop input to give you a bit of margin / future proofing. The total wire cost difference won't be all that much.
OK, an easy ammendment to make.
I haven't worked out exact placement of the battery and control panel yet. I have my own chart for wire gauge, I do tend to go the next step up anyway. The whole system should cost around £1000 and a few extra pounds here and there will be well spent
Very easy to read your diagram. I would use a switchable breaker on the feed wire for the Orion so you have positive isolation if you are doing maintenance. Even though you feel that you have a clear understanding of when that wire will be "live," positive mechanical isolation is a good practice for all power inputs to your electrical cabinet.
The solar requires a switchable breaker (or ideally a double breaker) so you can isolate that power source. Since the solar (-) does not naturally share a ground with the van chassis, the double breaker is preferrable. However, many people do use a single breaker since the Orion does not isolate the solar (-) from the battery (-), which is also bound to the chassis.
While a battery switch is normally used as you have shown, for a smaller system like this, a switchable 100A breaker could be substituted for the switch and fuse, and save you a bit of wiring complexity.
