Batrium BMS + CerboGX + ESS = Low Battery Warning/No Charging from Multiplus

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lance asked Mar 16, '22

Batrium BMS + CerboGX + ESS = Low Battery Warning/No Charging from Multiplus

I see essentially this same topic posted in varying iterations but, have yet to see a definitive solution posted as I'm combing through posts, and am hoping someone with knowledge of this can point me towards a solution.

I've got the Batrium BMS connected to the Cerbo using a modified network cable. I've followed all of the directions from Batrium, (https://support.batrium.com/article/110-how-to-control-victron-gx-with-watchmon),and it appears all the connections/communications are good EXCEPT: The MultiPlus is reporting "low battery", and when shore power is connected it goes into "Passthru" mode and does not charge the batteries. I see others on other threads having this issue but, have been unable to glean an answer from those threads that is applicable to my problem. In one of them Victron points towards the Dynamic Cut-Off values in the ESS as possibly being the culprit but, Batrium is adamant that those settings not be changed. Another thread points towards the Country Grid Code selection in the ESS as a possible source of the problem but, United States does not show up as an option and best I could come up with was "Other: not compliant to any grid code standard." Within that I've just left all settings at the default. The low battery warning does not start immediately but, after the system has been on for several minutes. Sometimes it stops for a bit, then starts again but, mostly it stays steady. (Though I've not said so yes, the batteries are fully charged. LiFePO4, 280ah/3.2v, 8S) Batrium's software sees them as fully charged, as does the Cerbo, and the Multiplus when viewed from within VE Config. Also, the system was working fine prior to connecting the Cerbo to the BMS, and switching to the assistant ESS.

Any help will be immensely appreciated.... I really don't know a lot about what I'm doing here but, I have solved a lot on my own, and am following directions carefully.

Multiplus-II cerbo gx BMS VE.Can low battery warning

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Mar 22, 2022 at 01:32 PM

@lance

The passthru is probably due to your ESS settings in the GX: if external energy meter is selected and not found this happens.

You could have found this in the manual ;)
https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Energy_Storage_System/en/faq.html#UUID-169dbd85-4b6f-814b-33c2-9fa77a6973d2_section-idm4628123204859232885885561444

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Modifications Space

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Answer 1 · 2022-03-17T09:51:18Z

Meine_Energiewende answered · Mar 17, 2022 at 09:51 AM

Good morning ! Batrium is not quite easy to install. As mentioned in their manual you have to adopt the settings to your setup.

First look i would do: check the dynamic cut off values and inverter settings.

ESS is btw not allowed in a off grid setup like on boats etc.

Jens

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Answer 2 · 2022-03-17T17:41:27Z

lance answered · Mar 17, 2022 at 05:41 PM

Good morning, and thank you Jens for this response.

Yes, there's no doubt that the Batrium is complex, and not really well suited for someone with as little knowledge as I have about this stuff to be setting up. Perhaps I'd have been better off with a more plug and play friendly BMS but, everything pointed to the Watchmon as being the best out there, so I opted to try it. I've worked through a lot, and have gotten it working so, I'm going to continue with it for the time being. My impression is that I don't HAVE to have it controlling the Cerbo; it is just a nice additional feature.

Secondly: Yes, I read that ESS is not allowed for off-grid applications on the Victron site somewhere. And yet, Batrium shows in their set-up page the use of ESS, and there are others out there who have used it successfully from what I read on these forums. So, not really sure what to do with that. Mine is in a mobile (Sprinter van) application. Perhaps the fact that it does at times connect to shore power makes it an on-grid system?

Lastly, I will go through the Dynamic Cut-Off Values again but, Batrium is adamant that those not be changed. This is from their page detailing how to control the Cerbo with the Batrium BMS:

Thank you for your input.

lance

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Answer 3 · 2022-03-17T18:41:05Z

Meine_Energiewende answered · Mar 17, 2022 at 06:41 PM

Hi Lance ..... yes ... batrium states, that changing dynamic cut off is not necessary ..... -> but it depends stronly on the used battery. For example: in a 16s setup the 0,005 C cutoff is at 52 volts -> far to early and system will show low battery.

The batrium victron docu is outdated by far.

Jens

PS: i use batrium in 4 installations ...... :) works quite well if setup correctly.

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lance commented · Mar 17, 2022 at 07:11 PM

Greatly appreciated Jens. I'm fumbling through this this morning here, and making a little progress but, nothing to document here. I will go back out with this new info from you in-hand. I also take great comfort hearing that you have near identical set-ups to mine working well! I WILL figure this out.....

I've also just looked at the DVCC tab, and searched it on these support pages.... That is a whole new world that I'm trying to decipher now.

And yes, I kinda suspected the Batrium page was out of date. In some ways they are a great company with a great product but, their product documentation and support is chaotic at best.

lance

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Answer 4 · 2022-03-17T20:12:33Z

lance answered · Mar 17, 2022 at 08:12 PM

I'm hoping you are okay with my leaning on your time and knowledge here, @Jens Rephöhler .....

I am fully prepared to change these settings but, I'd rather someone who understands this all better confirm that it is ok before I do so. I spent some time reading about C-Rate but, am just unable to comprehend how it applies here. Would you look at these settings and tell me if they might be the cause of my low battery warning? They are the default settings after entering battery type. I have 3.2v/280ah LiFePO4 wired in 8s for a 24v bank. Staying on the safe side I'm keeping the Batrium set to charge up to 3.55v/cell for a 28.4 maximum.

Thank you....

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Answer 5 · 2022-03-18T11:29:47Z

Meine_Energiewende answered · Mar 18, 2022 at 11:29 AM

your 0,005 C Setting ist far to high. Your system will show low bat quite early. I would set 0,25 C to 24,8 and 0,005 to 25 -> which also is quite conservative. You can go down further if needed. 2C should stay at 24 Volts, which is 3 Volts per cell under quite heavy load.

Hope it helps

Jens

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lance commented · Mar 18, 2022 at 04:46 PM

Got it! Hoping this move solves it. I decided yesterday to see what it would take to undo all the changes I had made to get the Batrium tied in, and get back to a working charger out of the MultiPlus. Got it done relatively easy so, I'm comfortable with experimenting here to try to get it to work but, with that as a fall back position if I just give up. Greatly appreciated.... will update my results.

Cheers!

lance

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Answer 6 · 2022-03-19T02:53:26Z

lance answered · Mar 19, 2022 at 02:53 AM

Well... that solved one part of it. No more low battery warning. But, it still will not go into charging mode and charge the batteries. It tries to but, quickly clicks back out of mains/charge and into inverting. As I process it, it seems somewhere there is a setting telling the charger to stop charging. There's no error messages or notifications on the Cerbo. Everything in Batrium's software appears normal.

Combing through the possible culprits, I came across this screen:

I changed the Charge Targets to "High Limited (original)" from the default "Ramped Charging" which then showed settings that matched what Batrium was showing in their directions. Otherwise, I left the values where they were as they seemed correct.

So, I tried going back to the default "Ramped Charging" and here the Multiplus went into Bulk Charging and all seemed good....... for about 30 seconds before it clicked out of charging mode and back to inverting.

I'm at a loss as to what to try next. The screen on the left is Victron Connect's Charging settings.

Can you point me any direction from here?

Thank you,

lance

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Answer 7 · 2022-03-20T08:08:56Z

Meine_Energiewende answered · Mar 20, 2022 at 08:08 AM

Please take a look at the charging tab. The Remote Tab is for stopping charge / discharge at a certain trigger. The batrium docu is quite outdated on their side.

As far as i see your MP2 is sending 28,4 Volts to the batrium (which is 3,55 volts per cell) and batriums therefore send 0,6 Amps back to the MP2. Not easy to see whats wrong.

Also send the "voltview" page back.

Jens

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lance commented · Mar 20, 2022 at 06:48 PM

Yes... it seems to me that what is going on is something is stopping the MP2 from going into charging mode every time it tries. Oddly, even for the 1 second or so that it tries before it kicks back out, it sometimes initiates the cooling fans which just makes me think there's some rapid heat being developed. But again: no alarms or notifications on the Cerbo for the MP2. The MP2 wants to charge, and is able to ( it works when not linked to the Batrium.) but, some setting somewhere is telling it to stop. I tried yesterday, after some reading, the DVCC setting in Cerbo controls for MP2..... no configuration I tried had any impact on the problem.

Here's both requested pages:

I wonder also, Jens: if this continues to be a challenge, if it is worth the trouble to make it work. Everything seemed fine when operating independently, and while it seems like a good thing to have the Watchmon controlling the MP2 (and eventually the solar's MPPT) through the Cerbo, is there a functional or safety gain in having it do so?

I immensely appreciate your time here.

lance

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lance commented · Mar 22, 2022 at 12:27 AM

I'm realizing that maybe because I did this as a "comment" versus an answer it may not have made it onto your radar so, just going to tag you here to let you know I replied @Jens Rephöhler

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Meine_Energiewende lance commented · Mar 22, 2022 at 08:53 AM

Yes .... i did not get an information. But sadly everthing look ok in the charging tab. Batrium sends "charge ok" to the charger. (look at the plug item in status line). This is not your problem.

Maybe i can have a look at your system if you want me to. My VRM Account is "jens@shadow.gt.owl.de". I will not do any changes -> just look and tell you my opinion.

Jens

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lance Meine_Energiewende commented · Mar 22, 2022 at 08:39 PM

Oh good.... I'm glad I checked again. I have a full day today but, tomorrow will be able to invest some time in this. I would welcome your having a look at my system, and trust fully there'd be no harm done. I just quickly logged in to the VRM account and, the Cerbo is showing but, the MP2 is not, and I'm not sure if it should be. It is connected to the Cerbo via network cable, and is currently ON and in inverting mode.

It does not appear I can pass on my account login info here (which I'm assuming you need) without it being public, and that I'd rather not do. I will try an email to the account you give above.

Again: thank you.... I cannot over emphasize my gratitude for your time here.

lance

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ lance commented · Mar 23, 2022 at 11:58 PM

Hi @lance maybe you missed my message, I'll copy here:

The passthru is probably due to your ESS settings in the GX: if external energy meter is selected and not found this happens.

You could have found this in the manual ;)
https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Energy_Storage_System/en/faq.html#UUID-169dbd85-4b6f-814b-33c2-9fa77a6973d2_section-idm4628123204859232885885561444

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lance Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Mar 24, 2022 at 01:01 AM

Yes @Daniel , I did see your feedback but, have only just been able to get out to see what is selected in that setting; apologies for the delayed response. "Inverter/Charger" is selected in the GX Grid Metering box.

Honestly though, I'm not sure that the passthru mode occasionally is the problem. See the conversation above with Jens about the MP2 trying to go into charge "bulk" mode when AC current is available on AC IN, and immediately kicking out of the mode, with the MP2 cooling fans coming on occasionally.

Your point though does bring to mind the basic question of "Can ESS be used in my situation?" This is a mobile (Sprinter) use with a 24v LiFePo4 3.2v e 8s configured battery bank with a Batrium BMS, their most current model Watchmon Core. It will connect to shore power from time to time, as well as have full time solar coming in through a Victron SCC (MPPT 150/45). Batrium claims they have checked with Victron, and their BMS can be used to control any GX device.

Not sure where to go from here. Jens is planning to have a look at my system though the VRM portal..... Hoping he can find something, as he says he has 4 of these systems with Batrium BMS's working very well.

Thank you,

lance shows

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masi lance commented · May 14, 2022 at 07:50 PM

I have the same issue with the Elerix battery. With Ve.Can comm activated the battery is not charged even if I set up "keep battery charged". If I remove CAN cable is working normally, but after switch off-switch on the Multiplus. In the remote console I can see the battery as Elerix and all the parameters show up, but in the device list under battery monitor I can see it as "Pylontech". It seems the ESS is programmed to override my parameters or Elerix parameters coming from the battery over CAN comm with Pylontech parameters what ar different by my battery. So far not any answer from Victron....

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lance Meine_Energiewende commented · Mar 24, 2022 at 03:39 AM

Hi @Jens Rephöhler

Just checking to see if you received my email to "jens@shadow.gt.owl.de" from "lanceshows@pacbell.net." Perhaps it got picked up by a spam filter....

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Answer 8 · 2022-11-01T13:40:31Z

snoobler answered · Nov 01, 2022 at 01:40 PM

I didn't read this entire thread. It got deep into the weeds. here's what I discovered when implementing my WM5 on a CCGX system.

Batrium instructions are garbage.

For off-grid ESS IS NOT NEEDED AT ALL!!!! DVCC is the key feature to be enabled for BMS control of the sysem.

Installing a Batrium on a Victron GX system:

The ONLY things needed in the GX:

Enable the CAN communication per the Batrium instructions (Settings - Services - VE.Can port).

Enable DVCC, SVS, STS and SCS specifying the BMS Temp sensor (Settings - DVCC):

Set Batrium as the battery monitor (Settings - System Setup)

This frustrated me to no end. Hopefully, this will help someone.

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