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ty-web asked

RCD on Out 1 Tripping When Battery is full - Multiplus 2

I have 20kw of battery 48v, 6000w of solar 5000va Solar Fronius Primo inverter (only solar charger) and a 5000va Multiplus 2. - Offgrid

Normally it works fine the Multiplus throttles the output of the Fronius as the battery fills. The issue is when the battery is full (56.8v for my system,) and the base load is about 1000w, the PV has been throttled to keep the output matching the load. But if I turn the kettle on 2100w, all is good for the duration of the kettle heating, the Multi releases the brakes on the Fronius and it comes up to supply the kettle and home around 3100w. The kettle then goes instant off when its done, the Multi now has to deal with the excess 2100w and it pushes a little into the battery before ramping the Hz to pull back the Fronius output. In this moment in time one or two of the RCD's trip on the output side of the multi(physically 20m away by 10mm sq cable), generally the kitchen RCD, which also does the garage and office, so we loose internet / aka view into the system.

I don't see that its a Factor 1 rule (I may have it wrong) as the two inverters are the same size at 5000Va, and at the point in time when the kettle goes off the load on the Fronius is generally running around the 3000w to 3500w load mark(slightly throttled already), and the multi is rated to 4000w continuous at this time of year of 20 to 25 degree temps. We also have an electric on bench oven and an air fryer all around similar watts, all three have the same issue so I don't think its a kettle issue.

It doesn't seem to happen if the battery is in a lower state of charge 90% or less. The batteries are set to stop taking charge at 58v on the BMS so there is a little head room. I have tried lowering the max charge voltage to 55 in the Multi and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Multiplus-IIFronius
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6 Answers
gazza avatar image
gazza answered ·

What value/type RCD is on AC out?
Just to be sure, this a totally "off grid" system with nothing connected to AC IN ?

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ty-web avatar image
ty-web answered ·

cheers for the reply Gazza,

yes correct no AC in, the AC out1 goes to a sub board with 3 of C curve 30ma /40A Clipsal RCDs which protects several light and power circuit breakers.

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gazza avatar image
gazza answered ·

Earth leakage faults can be tricky.... particularly when they are intermittent. You have done some good detective work although I can't see the direct connection of a full battery, except maybe the spikes caused by the system throttling back? If you turn off the Fronius and just use the Multi does it still happen?
Also have you eliminated all of your plugged-in appliances potentially having a problem? I would probably try and unplug everything that is connected to your Multi output, except router..! And then plug things like the kettle, air-fryer etc one at a time and see if you can replicate the problem and/or isolate it to one appliance?

I would suggest getting an electrician in to see what they can ascertain with measurement? What sort of earthing are you using? Clearly your problem is unique to a certain set of conditions so, in general it is working... but on the edge of limitation somewhere? Having multiple RCD's on the Multi output could be an issue as also could the RCD type itself? An electrician would be able to advise but for example Type B RCD's would give some protection against DC pulses, if that is the underlying problem?

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ty-web answered ·

cheers. I have done the RCD testing and they are tripping well within the required time. When the battery is not full those appliance run fine. On the Multi only they run fine. There is something unique to the M2 and Fronius at full battery with instant dropping of large load.

I have a second M2, I might swap them out or implement my long term plan which is to run them in Parallel. They are both same hardware / age bought to parallel. I am using one as charger only (No Ac Outputs at all) at the moment as in Australia, we currently dont have approval to connect them to the Grid it run out in July23. This time of year I dont need a charger batteries are full by mid day and the Fronus gets throttled...just nicely coincides with lunch time kettle or cooker use.

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gazza avatar image
gazza answered ·

I am not a Fronius owner, however by chance on another forum I saw a discussion regarding Fronius and RCDs... What does your "model specific" manual say regarding an RCD on the output? I think they were referring to this….

https://www.google.com/search?q=RCD+on+Fronius+output&sca_esv=572136157&ei=MvckZZfMFcmehbIPqsG9GA&ved=0ahUKEwiXrbDn9OqBAxVJT0EAHapgDwMQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=RCD+on+Fronius+output&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
I am not saying this is your problem... however, it may be worth checking the value required? It may require (very likely) a separate, different value, RCD to the Multiplus?

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ty-web avatar image
ty-web answered ·

cheers ill check it out


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