I have some simple questions that I have not been fully able to flush out in all my research and am hoping that someone will be able to give definitive, simple straightforward answers so I don’t make a costly mistake. (1) Of all the inverters what will be the best option for an off Grid Setup with a back up generator. I can see several options but I am not sure if I should be using a Quattro or and MultiPlus II. I want the generator to back stop the system in case the renewables are not enough to run the system and the batteries are getting low. I will be using a combination of Hydro, Wind and Solar.
I have attached my rough design on what I plan to do. The battery bank will be built out of LifePo4 batteries creating a 48VDC system and storing around 9600 ah. The batteries will have an average normal discharge rate 320 A per hour with a peak over 1000a but will need to be under 10 mins.
I have a cerbo gx in the cabin. There I have a shunt from before and want to add an extra shunt. The plan is for it to measure the 24v dc current coming from the wind turbine (Primus Windpower Air 40, 24V) into the battery bank. will this work?
I have a small hydro setup that I'm trying to get up and running. I've purchases a victron 100/20, awaiting for it to arrive.
My generator currently produces 62v DC after being rectified from 3 phase AC when running with no load. The generator is a motor off a segway es2 scooter - rated as a motor for 300 watts constant/700 watts peak @ 36v input.
My water source is very steady, there are no seasonal variations as I'm taking only a very small fraction of the total water source.
So, my thinking was that I had no need for an MPPT controller, and a cheap PWM controller would do nicely.
However, I'm running a 24v battery bank, so a PWM controller limits the motor RPM so it generates ~28v. This seems suboptimal.
Using an MPPT controller, it should spin at the top of the power producing curve, somewhere between 28v and 62v, and then convert the excess voltage to current, which is its primary appeal for me.
My questions are:
1. Are my assumptions correct?
2. Given my free-spinning, no-load output is 62v dc, and the victron 100/20 controller is rated to 100v input, I should have no need for a diversion/dump load, is that also correct?
3. Can I assume that the most power I should get from this motor is about 300 watts, as that's it rating when used as a motor? Or can it produce more as it certainly can produce more volts than its rated 36v.
4. Using a PWM controller, to optimise I would want to find a runner (propeller/impeller inline in tube, I'm not using turgo/pelton) that provided maximum torque at the RPMs it runs at 28v, while making sure it never drops below 28v (I can print new runner designs, so this was my planned optimisation route). Using MPPT, I have more flexibility as long as RPMs remain in a range to produce over 28v on full load, and remain under 100v with no load. Is that correct?
Apologies if the questions are basic, this is my first hydro build, it's been fun so far, but I have much to learn.
I understand the victron controllers are designed for solar, and hydro isn't supported, but I see a number of people on here who are using them as hydro controllers, so thought I might get some useful information here. Many thanks!
hi, i would like to know if victron mppt charge controllers support wind turbines? if yes could i run 2 controllers in parallel, one with solar and one with a wind turbine?
We've been enjoying using our Easy Solar 48v/3000, charging BYD lithium batteries for the summer with solar panels, waiting for my hydro system to be up and running for the winter. Can someone please point me in the right direction for plugging in the AC power from the hydro turbine - I'll need to set up a dump load or two to my hot water cylinder and heater, but what voltage range, AC/DC format, and frequency can the Victron unit accept? And where do I connect this?
Hi guys is there an another way how to measure wind speed differently then using an Irradiance Sensor with additional wind sensor?
Is BlueSolar a better option, if a third party wind controller is on a 48V DC bus? Maybe, because SmartSolar is foreseen for synchronous operation via Bluetooth with other SmartSolar MPPT-s, it cannot tolerate the wind controller which do not communicate with SmartSolar?
I have 4 different wind turbines (Tesup) with 4 charge controllers (1 x 12Vdc, 3 x 48Vdc).
These 4 charge controllers are connected with 4 Victron Phoenix inverters, to produce 230Vac:
a Phoenix 12V/250W inverter for the smalles wind turbine, a Phoenix 48V/800W, a Phoenix Smart 48V/2000W and a Phoenix Smart 48V/3000W.
Problem is that of course the wind is not always blowing, so the input from the charge controllers is often very low power, or times even 0 power. And these Victron inverters are so smart they see this as an empty battery.... So they give a few times a 'low battery' alarm, and then shut off completely. How can I change this setting to 'Simply keep producing 230 Vac with any power you are fed' ? A MK3-USB cable is on it's way ;)
Hi all. i have been running my off grid cabin on hydro for over a year now. i have been useing a tristar mppt controller and fixing the correct voltage in order to load the turbine correctly. this voltage is around 50v under load. That is the ideal speed to load the turbine to in order to catch the most energy from the water. that 50v equates to the turbine moving at half the speed of the water leaving the nozzle, this is the optimum relationship between nozzle volicity and rpm.
Now i have had lots of problems with morningstar and decided to try a victron blue solar controler. I planned on useing the mppt controler to find the best voltage instead of me needing to fix the voltage to 50v. I have plugged it in and at first i found that is would be all over the place and not find a voltage and stick to it. It would sometimes get close to the right voltage but then do another sweep and loose it again. I put this down to the fact that it is acting differently from solar and could do with some large capacitors to smooth it out. I have done this now and tested it and it isnt all over the place anymore but it thinks the maximum power point is at 30v and it simply isnt. The maths says it is at 50v. i have been using it for a year at 50v and that has giving me the most power. (I have done endless testing) But for some reason the blue solar controler seems to think the maximum power point is at 30v My question is why? and has anyone got an ideas? It will sometimes do a sweep and the voltage goes up and as it does the wattage produced goes up to. but then it just goes back to the 30v again. at 30v i am loosing alot of my efficiency because that relationship between nozzle velocity and rpm is off.
Thanks for any help.
Hi. We have a Quattro 48/10000 (& CCGX display) with Fronius Primo 5.0 (4kw PV) and a SMA windy boy (6kw turbine) on the AC output.
This is an off grid installation.
At the moment their outputs are combined when displayed on the CCGX remote console (displays as PV inverter with a Fronius side tag). But in the CCGX menu device list they are separate.
Is there any way to display these two inverters separately on the CCGX remote display? So I can see PV and wind production separately or do I have to just live with going into the menu and device list?
I'm planning off-grid system with PV and wind turbine. Based on the initial research I think that MyPv Ac-Thor is able to work as a dump-load for the wind turbine. I would also like to include a hot water boiler as prime excess power load.
I found this page https://www.victronenergy.com/live/actor_offgrid but there is no information about how to configure AC PV Inverter.
If I "define Frequency start value 50.1Hz and the Frequency end value 51Hz" in Quattro and Ac-Thor my guess is that AC PC inverter should have some offset e.g. start 51Hz end 52Hz. If all three have the same range PV Inverter will lower it's output so there won't be excess power for Ac-Thor, am I right?
I would like to use dump load only for wind turbine after boiler reaches target temperature. I'm not sure if this can be achieved using only one Ac-Thor.
Two units with following configuration seems to make sens:
1. First Ac-Thor 50.1Hz - 51Hz -> hot water boiler
2. AC PV Inverter 51Hz - stop
3. Second Ac-Thor 51Hz - 52Hz -> dump load for the wind turbine
Am I missing some better solution?
Thanks for your help!
We have an EasySolar with a PV array and generator to keep the bank of 48V batteries charged. This is all working well, but would like to consider the addition of a vertical wind turbine to help in the winter, Important here in Orkney where the winter nights are long! Have been looking at TRiStar controllers, dump loads, etc but getting confused about how this might all work together without the PV controller and wind turbine "fighting" each other to charge (and not overcharge) the battery bank. Anyone done this type of thing before? We also have a BMV712 monitoring the current/voltage.
I have a Off-Grid Quattro 10kVA with AC Connected 3kW Fronius Primo solar inverter and 4kW of solar panels. Frequency shift is used to manage battery overcharge. System works great in summer but we are expanding for winter with additional solar, and a wind turbine. We will AC connect an additional 4kW Fronius and solar array. For wind, we are installing a 3kW 60V AC turbine that will rectify to 48V DC and this feeds to a grid tie wind controller/ inverter (China Supply) that will synch to the AC Bus. The controller will dump power to dump resistors to protect the turbine from over speed/ voltage/ frequency.
However, i am concerned the Wind controller inverter will not spill turbine power (trigger dump resistors) when the AC Bus frequency is shifted by the Victron Quattro (High batrery voltage). Logic tells my the inverter would disconnect on high AC Bus frequency and send all power to dump resistors, though I cant be sure and manufacturer info is sketchy.
My question is whether it would be possible as a back-up to use one of the quattros Programmable relays to trigger when the AC Bus frequency is shifted to say 53hz. In this way I could trigger dump resistors to spill wind turbine power when it is not needed for House Load or battery charging.
We have the following 48V Victron setup:
As an experiment we are trying to add some wind power to keep the batteries topped up at night and in bad weather etc. The wind controller unit is setup to have a higher cutoff than the Victron and during testing we are putting about 4-5A into the battery array. The unit is simply wired in parallel with the DC bus.
The Victron MPPT seems to behave as expected as it approached the set-point (current backs off to less than 1A) until it switches to float mode.
What appears to happen when the Victron switches to float is that it gets confused by the other charging source and switches back to bulk charge mode. This is then dumping the full 35A into the battery and taking the bus voltage up to ~55V, until we pull the plug to stop it.
So we are wondering if there is something in the MPPT configuration options that would enable us to stop the Victron from behaving like this
Connection Silentwind with BMV 712: Plus wire connected to the plus part of the Battery. Negative wire connected to the Shunt.
We have a customer, grid-tie, but with constant power cuts.
Currently he has a grid-tie 1.5kW (pump as turbine) water turbine, with a ABB wind interface 4.0 and a old fronius with fixed MPPT voltage setting (but he can buy a new Primo), and a dump load connected to the wind interface.
Works perfectly, but because of the power cuts, he wants to add solar, and go with a Quattro 10kVA + Pylontech battery bank ESS setup. Ideally he wants to install the hydro setup on the ACout side of the Quattro, to be able to charge in case of a power cut, but not sure how well a fixed DC voltage Fronius will cope with Frequency shift.
Can anyone help with this? Is it safe to do this?
Hi, I have a SmartSolar Charger MPPT 250/70 system with Pylontech batteries but the solar is simply not enough to keep the batteries charged. I have very limited knowledge on this techy stuff but i feel there must be a way to connect a wind turbine to the system to help charge the batteries when the sun is not enough. I am mains connected too so when fully charged the power goes to the grid. and when the batteries are too low we draw from the grid. (I guess this is obvious to most of you but i need to keep it simple) I bought a turbine (48V) but have been advised that even with its own controller connected to it, it would damage the system. In my ignorance i can't understand why the electricity generated by the turbine is different to that generated by the solar panels. Can anyone advise me on whether I can connect a wind turbine to my system, if so what type of turbine and how. My installer (I guess because they only do solar) is as much use as a chocolate fireplace, so I need help please. Hoping someone has the answers I need and some basic advice. Many thanks in anticipation. Brian
I have a small 48v Multiplu—II/BlueSolar/Pylontech/Venus system installation. It works perfectly.
I want to consider a charge aid in the form of a small wind turbine and wind charge controller for those dark rainy windy days. Nothing to big.
Greetings, I would like to add a wind turbine to my off grid easy solar 3 kva 48v system to keep batteries charged on overcast days. Looking online, Kestrel wind turbines have various voltage output options on their e160i product, amongst others, they have 48v or 200 VAC turbines.
Question is ...What is the better solution .. to go for the 200v and plug directly into the shore power input or alternatively feed the 48v output from the Turbine into the DC input.
Also, will the easy solar unit dump off the excess power input from the turbine when it is not required? Thanks Maarten
I plan to add a battery bank to an existing micro hydro system. I would like to parallel 3 of the Victron Quattro 10kVA 120V to take power from the 24kW capacity hydro generator (or a diesel backup generator) to charge the battery bank and feed through / invert to 120V AC for household power. The problem is that the hydro generator produces power at 600V AC whereas the Victron Quattro inverter-chargers will accept only between 90V and 140V AC input. I could put a 600V to 120V step-down transformer between the hydro generator and the Quattros but this would reduce efficiencies.
Is there a way to set up a Victron product to handle the 600V AC output of my hydro generator? Or else is there an inverter-charger on the market that can handle that input voltage directly?
I recently made a knowledge group in facebook for enthusiasts like me, everybody is welcome to join
I am a solar installer from Gsol Energy Global, we make offgrid and on grid Solar systems for the UN.
In my private project, I am allso building a hybrid system containing wind and solar.
Technical information -
Wind turbine 1kw 3phase Greef generator mounted on 9m mast, with home made blades( vertical )
Victron quattro 10000Va,
Ccgx, lynx shunt can bus,
smartsolar 250/70 as wind input with rectifier, and 10000uF capacitor infront.
Smartsolar150/100 for pv.
Wind break will be added through a changeoverswitch later. I can raise and lower wind tower at will, and the vertical design is not prone to overspin due to the design.
My problem is that windmill it is not transferring power, even though i got strong wind and 60vdc at the pv input side. And the voltage on battery bank is more than 5v lower (51,2v - 57,6 is cycle use)
I was thinking that voltage from generator is to close to the battery voltage, I was thinking about putting a voltage stepup module infront despite the loss..
Any thoughts from you guys?
Anybody at Victron thought about releasing a small wind turbine regulator?
There are a lot of small <500W wind turbines out there with rubbish regulators including premium manufacturers like Rutland. Maybe one of your MPPT models could be easily redesigned for the purpose?
I have 2 wind turbines to connect to my Victron mppt 100/20 controller.
My motors are dc 85w. So connection is just 2 wires.
Works well with one wind turbine. Straight forward connection with negative and positive.
My question is; can someone please tell me how to connect the 2 wind turbines in parallel to the controller?
please give detailed description of wiring and what is needed. If I need to use small diodes on the positive? Etc..
I have been searching through the articles to see how best to combine solar and wind with lithium batteries.
I am providing power for a remote radio/ comm tower. The setup I have 2400 watts of solar, going into a smart solar 150/100 mppt. this charges 324 ah 48v lithium battery bank. This feeds into 3kva multiplus. I have a constant load of +- 300 watts going out the ac side. I have a BMV700 and everything is interconnected using Venus GX to make monitoring and remote configuring easier.
This all works well on 90% of the days when there is good sun, the only time I have issues is on prolonged overcast days. What i am looking at is a way of maximising the battery life by decreasing the DOD as much as possible.
The idea I have had is to install a 600 watt wind turbine and controller. I don't like the controllers as they do not seem to work well with lithium, and have rudimentary controls or setting points and from what I have read you cannot really put them through an mppt as it tracks to slow for the fluctuations of a wind turbine system.
I thought the best way to get around this is to take the controller that comes with the wind turbine and push this up to 64v and then string a number of supercapcitors with their balance boards together to make up 64vdc. then run this into an mppt on the input side. I can then monitor flow of power, and the GX / multiplus can control the system to maximise the power usage. has anyone tried this or had any luck with something similar.
My campertruck has 2 different battery systems.
Household battery is a bank of 3x110aH parallel 12v Accu’s
Starter battery is 24v trucksystem, so 2 in serie
Can I use the second aux-input on the BMS-712 as a midpoint monitor for the 24v starter Accu’s, while using the rest of the system for the 12v system monitoring?
Hi Guys, I'm planning my off-grid system and I need some help with the design.
My initial plan is to use Mulitplus II GX/MultiGrid with DC coupled PV connected to the BYD battery pack. The issue at this stage is the optimal connection of the wind turbine (3 phase generator).
Inverter recommended for this turbine can operate in both on-grid and off-grid installations. In on-grid mode it would be connected to AC out of the Mulitplus. If I'm not wrong surplus energy can be used to charge the battery but without any control of the Victron or BYD BMU.
Off-grid model can be connected to the batteries and work without the grid but the communication with BMU/BMS isn't supported.
Do you think that it's possible to use output of the wind inverter as an input to the Multiplus (or as genset for MultiGrid)?
This is a schematic for the off-grid, 'connection point to the electricity grid' will be the Multi.
Both Multi and PS100 will be connected to the same battery pack, but charging/discharging will be disabled in PS100. This should allow Multi to use power generated from wind to charge the batteries in line with BMU communication. If I'm not wrong it will also resolve the problem with overcharging the batteries.
What's your thoughts about this approach?
I want to use two power sources to charge a battery, which will in turn power a motor. I need to know how to design the circuit required so I can charge the battery from two sources
The "4min" pictures show the effect. In this case we came from Float. The battery is full, no current is flowing. Everything is fine. Then at the load output of the MPPT a light bulb is switched on - about 2 A the bulb wants to pull at 12.75 V = 25.5 W. Makes sense. But the load from the generator starts to swing now from zero to 150 W.4min Solar (W) and Load (A) 20190730-093526.jpeg
The charge controller seemingly can't cope with controlling that, because when it tries to take the voltage back up, it brakes the water wheel, voltage drops and current goes down simultaneously.4min Solar (V) and Batt (V) 20190730-093613.jpeg 4min Solar (A) and Batt (A) 20190730-093635.jpeg
The pictures "42min" show the course over a longer period. Sometimes it goes smoothly for a few minutes, but then everything oscillates again. 42min Solar (W) and Load (A) 20190730-112209.jpeg42min Solar (V) and Batt (V) 20190730-112228.jpeg42min Solar (A) and Batt (A) 20190730-112249.jpeg
The currents jump up to 10A and down to 0A. You can also hear it in the running noise of the system, how the generator grabs and brakes and then lets go again. Definitely not good electrically for the battery and mechanically?
Is there a trick for hydropower units? From my point of view, the charge controller is too fast? If it were a PID controller, you could tune it. But I didn't find any parameters that could be tuned.
We are at a water wheel with a weight of approximately 1 ton (3.5 m diameter, 1.5 m wide); with the water flow and fall height, theoretical power 100 W, rotating at ~ 10 rpm IMG_3530.jpg-> 3 stage gear system to increase rpm IMG_20180323_181324.jpg-> 3-phase AC generator (ZXA 50500) -> bridge rectifier -> BlueSolar MPPT 75/10 -> 100 Ah 12 V battery
the heater has a very non linear curve, such that It draws quite some current when cold. best solution would be to use a triac driven on input voltage > tbd and use thta the connect to the heater on the AC side of the generator. unless the generator is a 3 phase type, but switching dc powers creates always turn-off surges and sparks. best would be a PWMpower fet control with the heater as a load, so there is no hysteresis and oscillation. allways add surge protectors, snubbers etc.
good luck !
Greetings everyone, I am new to forum and would like to say hello.
I have a question regarding input on the MPPT 100/50.
Is it possible to use the DC output of a permanent magnet generator 60v-72v with maximum 70 amps to the input of 1 or 2 paralleled mppt 100/50 charge controllers?