MPPT RS 450/100 Error 35

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question

lukas asked May 7, '21

MPPT RS 450/100 Error 35

Hi there,

Recently I saw an Error 35 for no obvious reason on my MPPT RS 450/100. Configuraiton is 9x 375Wp panels on each tracker, east-west configuration. The short circuit current of the panels is around 11,5A according to the flash-list of the manufacturer with a Imppt of around 10A.

The error did happen when there was sun / clouds in short alternation leading to sharp bumps in solar production. Voltage was around 350V according to the logged data, my battery voltage is between 46V and 52.4V (pylontech battery).

Any clues what might be happening here? The unit is two month old...

mppt rs inverter rs

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mvader (Victron Energy) answered · Jan 31, 2022 at 11:46 PM

Dear all,

Today we released MPPT RS, Inverter RS and Multi RS firmware version v1.08, which fixes false-positive #35 errors.

Instructions on how to install below. Thank you for all your reports and help, super valuable.

This same new version also fixes Error #201 as well as Error #27.

To install the update, two methods

1. When connected via VRM, use the Remote Firmware update mechanism. Details in the documentation.

2. When not connected via VRM, use VictronConnect - either connected via Bluetooth or using a VE.Direct to USB cable. Note that it is the necessary to first download the right files from https://professional.victronenergy.com.. Explained in more detail in the VictronConnect manual, chapter 9.2, Using a self-supplied firmware file.

Within a few weeks, we'll release a new version of VictronConnect that includes the necessary files, after which it will no longer be necessary to download them yourself. Especially if your system has no issues, and when not connected to VRM, I recommend to wait a little for that new VictronConnect version to be released.

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2021-05-10T17:07:03Z

Alexandra answered · May 10, 2021 at 05:07 PM

@Lukas

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/mppt-error-codes#err_35_-_pv_over-power

By over power it is referring to an over voltage from the PV not an over amperage. https://www.victronenergy.com/mppt-calculator check your panels config using this page I think you may find they are over voltaged at certain temperatures.

You will be getting what is known as could edge effect. If the panel temperatures are under the 25° they will produce a higher voltage than rated. An array should be sized for you areas minimum temperatures.

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lukas commented · May 10, 2021 at 05:52 PM

@Alexandra:

According to VRM, the voltage seems to be acceptable...also, the OAT was ok at around 21-22°C that day... I made sure that there is some headroom left until -15°C with the temperature coefficient of the panels. Even with the additonal considerations to subtract the battery voltage for the MPPT RS, there is at least around 50VDC headroom at the time the error occoured (error was flagged at 15:01).

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Alexandra ♦ lukas commented · May 10, 2021 at 06:35 PM

@Lukas

The VRM is showing PV voltage under load so does not count in panel config. What is its VOC of your panels? That is how the headroom is calculated on an MPPT. VOC at min temperatures.

All the panels I know (both mono and poly and half cuts, different brands with te exception of LG) of 375W can produce over 50V per panel under 25°, so 9 will be most likely be over voltage. With cloud edge effect your panel temperatures can be below ambient temperatures so not helping the situation, especially if it was re-tracking.

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lukas Alexandra ♦ commented · May 10, 2021 at 07:11 PM

Some example data from the flashlist, the panels are Trina Honey M TSM-370DE08M.08(II) - 370 Wp (BFR), but most of them are actually close to 375W:

	UOC(V)	ISC(W)	UMPP(V)	IMPP(W)	Coeff Voc
	41,11	11,46	34,34	10,89	-0,106886

Tpanel [°C]	dT [K] to 25°C	Voc [V]	9 Series Cells		Coeff base is -0,26%/K
0	-25	43,7822	394,03935
5	-20	43,2477	389,22948
10	-15	42,7133	384,41961
15	-10	42,1789	379,60974
20	-5	41,6444	374,79987
25	0	41,11	369,99
30	5	40,5756	365,18013
35	10	40,0411	360,37026

Assuming an ambient air temperature of the panels of around 20°C, why should the panels be below ambient? But lets assume this would be the case and the panels were at 15°C. The Voc at this point would be ~380VDC, which is well within the specification of panelvoltage + batteryvoltage <= 450VDC (380+52,4V = 432,4V). Also, since there were clouds, the panels were not open circuit, but operating at the MPP at a much lower voltage.

My suspicion is that the RS 450/100 does not react fast enough an had the MPPT tracker "wide open" because the trackers did not produce much. When sun punched through the clouds, the array was suddently at full power (notice the jump from 1.5A, or almost nothing, to full power at close to 10A). And since the array is oversized for good production at bad days, overloaded the RS450/100 briefly, until it could reduce the MPPT operating point to a more comfortable setting. Also note the current output in the above graphs, which is close to Impp, which is way to much for the RS450/100 (the array has 7,7kWp, oversized, since we do not get a lot of sun during winter / transition periods here).

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Alexandra ♦ lukas commented · May 11, 2021 at 01:48 PM

@Lukas

When it is cloudy and the sun breaks that is known as cloud edge effect and commonly blows most mppts. The panels are rated at 1000W/m² so if your irradiation was higher it possible it can also produce more than the datasheet says.

The panels can be colder because of wind and other factors. The oversize is ok to a certain point as long as you never go over the hard 450V limit.

I have also seen 980W out of 2x 380W panels and I do live near the equator, so it may be worth checking the VOC of each string (no load) with a good meter to make sure they are only giving out the voltage the Datasheet specifies.

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lukas Alexandra ♦ commented · May 11, 2021 at 07:53 PM

@Alexandra

Thanks for the input - I'll have a close look at the Voc during colder days. Such a high output would be awesome :D I've never seen anything more than the rated power from my panels over the past years- we are in Germany :) I could not find a max. value for my location, not even Germany for W/m², only the averaged kWh/m² over the year...but I think we should be more towards the 1kW/m². If these nice RS485 solar radiance sensors would be more affordable, I would get one...

It's hard to tell the max. voltage, but from the readout of the MPPT, it was 389V. I'll try to hook a scope one day, when we have cloud edge again...I have a 1kV probe, maybe I'm able to check the voltage this way.

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Answer 2 · 2021-05-10T17:56:25Z

solardude answered · May 10, 2021 at 05:56 PM

I have experienced the same error, with nearly identical voltages/headroom as yours. It could be a glitch in the error reporting process for that particular error.

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Answer 3 · 2021-05-14T10:25:09Z

lukas answered · May 14, 2021 at 10:25 AM

What I just found, since the Error 35 keeps happening: The unit actually did put out more amps than rated - max. was around 123A when the error popped up. At another instance, it was 112A.

From my point of view, this is fine - as long as the lifetime of the unit does not suffer from the regulation issues. Seems like it cannot drive down something internally fast enough and overshoots by 30% of the max. output current. Maybe someone sees this and adresses the issue but I'm going to leave it as is.

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented · May 14, 2021 at 12:27 PM

I asked if there was more info behind this error:

During normal conditions clouds/sun i would not expect this to be triggered.

Could it be that the battery pack opens its contactor while the unit is charging?

It is purely the 525V fast ovp internal protection. It might be triggered by:

• actual over-voltage on the PV inputs (>525V)

• the boost converter is active and there is a sudden rise in PV power that the converter cannot keep up with, the fast protection shuts down the boost converter quickly.

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lukas Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented · May 18, 2021 at 10:02 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

I could not find an actual overvoltage so far, the unit reports 389V max. but this was a few weeks ago when we had lower temperatures. A check with a scope attached is yet to be done on my side, but I have to wait for the right weather conditions as well. It has to be mostly cloud free with some thick clouds to really punch the MPPT from 1-2kW to over 6kW in a fraction of a second. Then I see currents as high as 130A on the 100A rated units for a second, until it is able to regulate down. This also directly leads to the Error 35.

I think it's more the second point that you adressed. My total 1kW/m² performance is 7,7kW total, 3,375kW per Tracker (east-west panel arrangement on a flat roof, 12° panel slope). The short circuit current of the panels is well within the 18A limits, and the voltage should only be critical in really cold conditions (but then the panels will also be iced-over or partially covered in snow due to the low slope...). So the unit is slightly overcommisioned in terms of total power, but each tracker is below the 4kW limit. My installation also has other issues in terms of regulation, when I enable feed-in and the MPPTs are "fully on". Also, the MPPTs do not respect the BMS charge current limit in this mode and throw 140A at a pylontech battery requesting 20A charge current. Maybe there is something going on with DVCC, the DC grid feed-in and the MPPT regulation in this mode, because the whole regulation seems to be way more spikey and unstable in with DC feed-in. I try to test the next days without the DC grid feed-in when cloud edge is likely - maybe there is some relationship there.

But thanks for the feedback - I'm a bit affraid that the high current might damage something on the long run. I would be willing to test beta firmware by the way if this helps, once victron makes changes and needs an installation to test. Just an Idea: If the unit runs a boost via a res. LLC, could it make sene to introduce two operaitng modes:

1) a medium voltage mode for people with string voltages in the 200-300V range

2) a high voltage mode for installations with >300V most of the time

This way, one could limit the max. boost factor and maybe sacrifice some power when conditions are bad (with my 9 series cells, I currently see 310V and it is really cloudy and raining with 1,6kW total output from the MPPT RS, my minimum voltage before there is any current is around 270V-290V according to VRM). If the max. boost factor is a bit more restricted for larger installations, maybe this helps in these situations...just to have more headroom in terms of PV side boosted voltage before the voltage limiter kicks in when there are dramatic power changes on the PV side...

If the topology is simmilar to this one - I'm talking about limiting the Sa1 and Sa2 initial boost.

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lukas lukas commented · May 18, 2021 at 10:34 AM

I just saw a cloud edge with approx. 2-3 seconds from the afforementioned 1,6kW to full rated power with bright sun, both trackers almost the same current so ideal daytime (12:34) as well. No error 35, the unit was fast enough to keep track. Current hit 100A, but did not overshoot.

These load steps did not trigger Error 35:

Here are output current waveforms for error 35:

Tracker Voltages and Currents for the error 35 situation:

Error was flagged at 14:38:11 according to VRM.

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lukas lukas commented · May 18, 2021 at 12:39 PM

Additional Info:

The MPPT seems to be aware of "too much power" beeing available and also has the right operating mode - it is limiting instead of operating at MPPT:

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mattsmith commented · Dec 23, 2021 at 10:10 AM

Oh well picked up..!!! My unit is waaaay under voltage, but I followed your comment and found that at the same time of the error I was exceeding the 100A. Surely though the MPPT should be restricting the output amps...?

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Answer 4 · 2021-06-13T12:53:15Z

solardude answered · Jun 13, 2021 at 12:53 PM

I see there is a beta release of VictronConnect that addresses these issue. I’m experiencing the same problems so I will try it out and report back.

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Answer 5 · 2021-06-14T18:31:24Z

lukas answered · Jun 14, 2021 at 06:31 PM

v1.04 has a potential fix for error 35 - just updated the RS and with some sunny days ahead, I can hopefully test the new voltage control.

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lukas commented · Jul 12, 2021 at 12:16 PM

After a few days with hard jumps in solar production, there is no more Error 35 and regulation is way better with v1.04 on the MPPT RS.

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Answer 6 · 2021-11-04T10:44:46Z

quentin-bligh answered · Nov 04, 2021 at 10:44 AM

I am getting the same error 35 on a system with software version 1.05 installed. Getting it a few times a day in certain conditions where the temperature and radiation are just right. they only last for 1-2 seconds but are enough to make the customer concerned.

The system is two strings of 10x 400W @431VocMax & 12.3A. into a 24kWh stack of BYD batteries.

Is there anyone else out there getting the same error still, does the firmware still need tweaking?

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Rob Duthie commented · Dec 21, 2021 at 07:09 AM

Hi All

Yes getting the same issue with just 7 panels of 415watt in series & 8.1A Imp and voltage of 296Voc x 2 strings east and west.

Both MPPT trackers showing 10.8Amps @ 263.27 volts

Running the latest firmware 1.05

48v BMS controlled system Pylotech.

I am based In New Zealand and it summer time.

So the PV panels supply are well under max ratings and the charge current is around the 90 to 100 Amp mark, Also i get about 3 to 4 error 35 alarms in a row for the day then OK for rest of the day, it can be random. may be only when in bulk charging mode. Also charging from AC coupled inverters at th same time This is only for the black start system.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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Answer 7 · 2021-12-23T10:07:56Z

mattsmith answered · Dec 23, 2021 at 10:07 AM

Same issue here, I got 4 alarms today and it wasn't particularly cloudy. Runnings firmware 1.05

Any updates..?

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Answer 8 · 2021-12-23T12:27:30Z

Ingo answered · Dec 23, 2021 at 12:27 PM

Same here. Voltage way in the correct range but the cloud effect boosted charge power so much that my RS spiked over 100A for a split second with +-6.8kW PV power being generated at that time. Perhaps the error #35 could be delayed by a small amount as the charger should pull back the current down to Max.(100A).

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mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented · Dec 24, 2021 at 06:20 AM

Hi all, this is just a n we’re looking into this. I’ll get back to you on it. Could be after new year.

thank you for your reports!

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Answer 9 · 2021-12-24T10:26:38Z

mattsmith answered · Dec 24, 2021 at 10:26 AM

I thought I'd try setting my max output AMPS to 90A and see if that prevented the 100A overrun. Will report back :-)

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Rob Duthie commented · Dec 24, 2021 at 09:24 PM

Could be temporary fix, keep posted i will set my clients one the same way.

Note: We should able to to run up to 100Amps as that is what it is designed to do.

Be interesting if the 200 Amp model has issues with error 35.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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mattsmith Rob Duthie commented · Dec 25, 2021 at 02:09 AM

Today was a good test super fast charging and the 90A limit on the 450, seemed to prevent the error 35. I'll give it a couple of weeks to be confident.

And agreed, the 100A maximum of the controller should prevent the overrun but clearly doesn't. When the errors occur I can see it was over the 100A. If that is the case it's an easy fix. :)

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mattsmith Rob Duthie commented · Dec 28, 2021 at 11:39 PM

How you going Rob...? Still no errors for me, interestingly I saw that even with it set at 90A it jumped to 95A at the end of a charging cycle of the batteries. Still under the 100A so no errors. :-)

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Rob Duthie mattsmith commented · Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 AM

Hi Matt

Retesting again i set it to 90Amps while i was watcing the remote via victron connnect,

Then the sun came out and it shot over by about 110A mps then backed off then settled down to 90 Amps, so it can still over shoot the current limit, the voltage was about 310Vdc

So was well within the power rating for both MPPT.

So reset and test again.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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Rob Duthie mattsmith commented · Jan 14, 2022 at 10:08 AM

Hi Matt

After lowering the current down to 90 Amps still getting the error 35. current is clipped to 90Amps no over current loads above 95Amps.

The current never got over 90amps for the VRM site data logging.

Voltage PV 299Vdc and 9.6Amps power around 2880 watts per tracker.

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mattsmith Rob Duthie commented · Jan 15, 2022 at 12:26 AM

Damn, just got my first error. Large stormy day today with almost no power generation and then a break in the clouds error. :-( Battery was at 80%

I have my 450 set to 90A and it overan to 93.8A at 55.16V

Input voltage peak was 372V @ A13A on East string and 342V @ 10A on west string.

So while it's much better it's not a cure unfortunately.

To the Victron folks if you want data or someone to test etc happy to help out.

Matt

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mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ mattsmith commented · Jan 15, 2022 at 02:30 AM

Hi Matt, we have found, and fixed issues around error #35.

I expect an official release within two weeks. Thank you for the offer to test, might contact you about that. Have a good weekend

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Warwick Bruce Chapman mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented · Jan 15, 2022 at 08:42 PM

Great thank you. We're having a hard time with the error 201 failed units being replaced with units that error 201 again. This error #35 on top of that is making the RS a real challenge for us. In our case we've seen this only with Revov batteries and think it has to do with the batteries open circuiting and the battery bank size being reduced and the RS doesn't handle that as robustly as the older MPPTs.

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