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Simo Hassi avatar image
Simo Hassi asked

Should VE.Bus BMS be shown in device list?

Hi,

I wonder if VE.Bus BMS should be visible in device list. My Victron installation has EasySolar 48/5000 (MultiPlus + BlueSolar MPPT + CCGX), 4 x 25,6V 200 Ah LiFePO4 Smart batteries, BMV-712 Smart with 1000 A shunt, VE.Bus BMS and Orion-Tr 48/12-30 DC-DC converter. The system is fed by 5,1 kW solar panel array and there are DC loads. I have successfully installed VE.Bus BMS assistant.

When I open the device list of this installation in VRM I only see Gateway (CCGX), VE.Bus System (MultiPlus), Battery Monitor (BMV-712) and Solar Charger (BlueSolar MPPT) but not VE.Bus BMS. If I open Remote Console and go to MultiPlus tab I see that VE.Bus BMS has been recognised. But when I open BlueSolar MPPT tab and Networked operation I find that it's not networked and not BMS controlled. What have I missed?

When I'm on site I can check the status of the Smart batteries on VictronConnect with my mobile phone. The batteries are connected to the VE.Bus BMS by daisy chained data cables and obviously the status information should be transmitted to the BMS, but I can't find e.g. battery temperature anywhere.

My concern is that even if the VE.Bus BMS is recognised by MultiPlus and its both leds are lit blue it still isn't fully installed.

I would be grateful for any helpful ideas.

BMS
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3 Answers
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

Hi @Simo Hassi

It's visible in the Multi's menu

The Victron Lithium Battery manual has just recently had a complete re-write, there are LOTS of new diagrams and more in depth information, I would strongly suggest you read the BMS relevant parts of that manual again now (even if you have in the past).

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/15958-Lithium_Battery_Manual-html5/index.html?lang=en

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Simo Hassi avatar image Simo Hassi commented ·

Thanks Daniël,

Yes, I had been reading the old manual but after reading the new one I still can't find a mistake. The VE.Bus BMS is visible in the Multi's menu (see screenshots) but why BlueSolar's menu says that it's not controlled by BMS?

I need to check VE Direct connection for loose plug or something when I get back to the installation.

Also, when I open Advanced in VRM it shows me VE.Bus Summary and says that battery temperature is -273!


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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ Simo Hassi commented ·

This is the relevant part of the manual - depending on the model of your charger, you may need an extra wire, extra accessory cable, or extra battery protect to isolate the solar charger.

This signal is not passed from the VE.Bus connection of the Multi to the MPPT via the GX device and VE.Direct cable. An extra independent connection is required.

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/15958-Lithium_Battery_Manual-html5/en/system-design.html#UUID-35eec37f-52c9-7135-44d5-bdb68fecc93a

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Simo Hassi avatar image
Simo Hassi answered ·

Now the vessel is stored for winter with batteries at 50% charge and completely disconnected. I will come back to this topic when we here wake up from hibernation some time in April.

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bathnm avatar image
bathnm answered ·

@Simo Hassi, You will not see any detail in VRM or on the CCGX about the batteries.

The connection between the batteries and the VE.Bus BMS is a very simple communication that just triggers load and charge disconnect.

You will not see the temperature value, the battery will be checking temperatures, and if it gets too cold, will signal to the BMS to disable charge.

The only way to get the battery details, cell and temperature, is via the bluetooth with Victron Connect. It is all working as it should do.

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Simo Hassi avatar image Simo Hassi commented ·

OK, thanks for this. I'm still a bit confused about how the VE.Bus BMS controls charging in low temperature. Obviously it must receive temp information from the batteries and then cut off charging if it's below 5 degrees? (Why is this information not available for CCGX through VE.Bus?)

It's important for me because in autumn and spring there will be long periods when temperature is fluctuating around 5 deg. Can I trust that the VE.Bus BMS will do its job?

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bathnm avatar image bathnm Simo Hassi commented ·

@Simo Hassi, the m8 connector between BMS and battery is a very simple signal. The controller within the battery triggers a signal to the VE.Bus BMS which passes it onto the VE.Bus and external load and charge disconnect signal.

I found the following details about the m8 cable on the forum and confirmed by some testing. The m8 connector has a black, blue and brown cable. If you break the blue or brown you will find the system goes into load or charge disconnect. Can’t remember which colour is which.

The battery will detect the voltage within itself and when below 5 degrees C cut charge by triggering the charge disconnect signal to the BMS which passes it on.

I have installed a temperature sensor in the battery compartment and connected it to one of the Cerbo temperature inputs. I can thus see the compartment temperature via VRM and the Cerbo.

I plan to tigger a relay to switch on heat pads under the batteries when the compartment temperature gets towards 7 degrees and off when it gets to 10. I will adjust these as I get data over the weekend.

I am also contemplating wiring the charge disconnect signal to a digital input on the Cerbo so I can track when the battery triggers charge disconnect and compare it to the temperature probe.

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Simo Hassi avatar image Simo Hassi bathnm commented ·

I see. I was also considering to install an "old fashioned" temperature sensor in battery box for being able to watch temperature remotely. It just feels stupid when the batteries already measure the temperature by themselves.

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