question

trevorw avatar image
trevorw asked

Will using a Phase Angle AC Regulator harm my inverter?

Hi.
I want to connect a controller to a heater element so that I can turn it down a bit. Is there any reason that this should not be done if the 230v AC is being supplied by a Victron Multiplus 12/3000. Could there be any feedback from the controller due perhaps to rapid switching or phase angle control that would be an issue for the inverter. Plugging this into a domestic AC socket will be fine so should it not also be ok on a Victron output?

I will be connecting a resistive load controller (United Automation CSR2-15E) in the mains feed between a washing machine's circuit control and it's heating element so that the element's wattage is reduced from 2100w to more like 1300w.

Thanks - Trevor

Phoenix Inverter
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2 Answers
andreww avatar image
andreww answered ·

I have been doing exactly what you are trying to achieve, using a 4-noks power reducer. it has been running for about 4 years and has not yet damaged my Victron Multiplus (5000/48). 4-noks sell it to work in conjunction with the Elios4You but you don't have to have the Elios; the Power Reducer will work with anything that can produce a 0-10V control signal (so if you want a 2100 W immersion heater to draw just 1300 W, simply feed 6.19 V into the Power Reducer control signal input (6.19 = 10 * 1300/2100). (If you just want a fixed diversion percentage you can use the 10V reference signal from the Power Reducer and scale it down to 6.19 V with a simple resistor bridge).

There is a very good article on this at https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2013/09/04/the-importance-of-pv-immersion-control/

In particular, note where he says: following rigorous testing, 4-noks have found PWM to be the most suitable in altering the energy diverted to the load, whilst causing the least strain on the AC sine wave. With the inclusion of specific filters, harmonic emissions can be contained to acceptable levels, enabling the solution to meet the stringent CE and EMC compliancy for the domestic class.

When I take the front off my 4-noks Power Reducer and have a look inside I see that it has a really large coil. I think this is the main component in "smoothing" the demand, so that although the output to the immersion heater is "pulsed" (which does it no harm since it is simply a passive resistor), the input does not suffer from these pulses, which might otherwise harm the inverter.

From a brief glance at the United Automation CSR2-15E I would be doubtful about whether this would work. It clearly doesn't have the smoothing ability of the 4-Noks machine. I am attaching a picture of the inside of the 4-noks - as you can see it is in a different league from the CSR2-15E.


4-noks-insides.png (2.7 MiB)
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trevorw avatar image trevorw commented ·

Thanks AndrewW for your comprehensive answer. I'm very glad I asked. Yes, certainly in a different league and I'll look at your links tomorrow. I'm not surprised it's trickier than I thought. TrevorW

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trevorw avatar image trevorw commented ·

Thanks AndrewW, Interesting article. The 4-noks gear looks good and it's good to know about the Elios4you for spare solar. The price of the power reducer is rather more than I was expecting for my application. BTW I have already looked at remanufacturing a lower wattage element based on a new spare part but that is not straightforward.

It would be convenient if the washing machine can still heat water a little but I intend to set a low temperature programme and feed it with warm water to bypass the heater. I would be happy to disconnect the element (not the thermostat) but I assume the machine will throw up an error. I haven't tested this yet. So the controller is to just to lessen power demand should the element cut in. Would it not be simpler and safer to use a continuous voltage dropping fan controller rather than full voltage pulsing, or are they both disruptive with AC and potentially damaging to the inverter.

Trevor

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andreww avatar image
andreww answered ·

I only really know "what works for me" - I can confirm from actual experience that my set-up works but I don't have the knowledge to say what else might work. I looked up "continuous voltage dropping fan controller" in the usual place and it seemed to be all about the tiny DC-powered fans that are used to cool PCs etc. It does seem to me that anything that pulses the output is going to pulse the input too, unless there is some serious smoothing components inside it. In the case of immersion heaters, they have to be big to store enough energy between the on- and off-pulses.

There is possibly a much simpler solution if you simply want to reduce the wattage of your immersion heater. My immersion heaters have 3 parallel elements and it is simple to wire them so that only one (or two) elements are in use (giving you, obviously 1/3 or 2/3 of the full output).


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