Next Victron Communication center?

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andrii-podanenko asked Dec 15, '23

Next Victron Communication center?

Hi, Victron community

Haven't found any specific topics about the future of Cerbo and want to start this discussion as per finally landed on the Victron ecosystem and found some bottlenecks I do believe Victron SW/HW Architects are thinking, working on, right now in the roadmap.

Going to start with bottlenecks, because I love to keep the most tasteful piece on my plate for the final bite

- Lack of RAM on Cerbo ( I haven't found and have not yet purchased Ekrano to check what's there ) Would be awesome to add a slot for extending RAM from the mobile domain ( e.g SO-DIMM) . This is needed for advanced setups, like having Docker in a system (e.g to incorporate surveillance software, like Frigate, as it should be part of an off-grid connected system )

- Lack of CPU power - I don't think this is achievable in the short term but would be great to see any alpha/beta activity for the Risc-V tech, as it shows really good results.

- Also have some sort of a motherboard with the ability to attach Computed Modules or SOC devices (e.g Accelerators chips, like Google Coral )

- Having PoE embedded into comm-centers - I found a need to decouple the power supply and put Cerbo on a dedicated system with an independent battery as per the main one could be in Alarm mode ( BMS disconnect ), but Cerbo should stay alive, as well as internet connection

- Put SFP+ slot instead of rj45, for those who are on optical networks. This also should reduce power consumption, as optics consume less. For backward compatibility, SFP+ can be used to place RJ45 connector instead.

- More USB ports ( USB-C ) ( we have high DC voltage in a system, should be low effort to deliver PD via USB-C

- Because Venus OS is not just monitoring, but automation - would be great to have an extension slot for the Zigbee ( zigbee2mqtt ) ( Matter probably ) , because some temperature sensors could be done via Zigbee ( to put them into a battery array without the need of wiring )

- Move internal logic into Node-RED ( ESS, MPPT, Notifications ) for the ability to reuse/improve them back via the OpenSource community.

- Introduce an Abstract driver for any available device from the Victron domain. Would be great to add MultiPlus/AC charger as in the Demo library, but into the live system, and start playing with it via MQTT->dbus layer to integrate other devices, available in every off-grid house. ( dreaming... ). This also should help hardware manufacturers to integrate our devices into the Victron ecosystem.

Also, for advanced users, would be cool to have an open Roadmap and webinars to discuss.

Thank you for making great, open, and transparent products, Victron.

cerbo gx feature request ekrano gx

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Mike Dorsett commented · Dec 16, 2023 at 06:59 PM

I Tried a couple of Google chrome devices, and found them completely useless for this type of application. They ALWAYS corrupt the eMMC if power is removed unexpectedly. Also found the user interface very cumbersome. Far better to use beaglebones.

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andrii-podanenko Mike Dorsett commented · Dec 17, 2023 at 02:47 PM

I put just a rough example there.

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mvader (Victron Energy) answered · Dec 17, 2023 at 11:08 PM

Hey Andrii, thank you for the nice ideas and write up.

I’ve been considering more powerful hardware now and then, but the issue is that it isn’t needed for 99% of the users, maybe even 99.9%.

The Ekrano has twice the CPU power as the Cerbo, and both are plenty for all normal use cases, including Node-RED.

Perhaps an option is to find some well supported more powerful hardware, like an Intel NUC (seems to be Asus now); and compile Venus OS for that.

But thats quite a wild idea, not something we’ll be doing ourselves any time soon.

Anyone wanting to do that from the Community is more than welcome to. Project starts with finding hardware; and thereafter adding it as a machine to Venus OS - into the Open Embedde build system: a task not to be underestimated. Could amount to hundreds of hours of work, unless you’re very familiar with Open Embedded / Yocto.

USB-C / Power delivery: yes we are looking into that.

SPF+: same thing: optical is rather niche.

Roadmap/webinars: I understand how that would be nice and valuable. I’ll consider it. One issue is time.

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enodev commented · Dec 18, 2023 at 09:16 AM

To add to @mvader (Victron Energy)‘s answer. I would also consider the system design aspect. As much as it is nice to have everything in one box, I think it may be wise to keep life critical (Cerbo) separate from non life critical (Visualization, integration with other systems, docker). Once you start putting more stuff in, you start using the CPU and storage and RAM more and in unpredictable and untested ways. And by that you are entering wild waters and possibly affect life critical functions. Who will sign that the system will not break due to one misbehaving docker app?

Just my .2 € cents

Martin

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andrii-podanenko enodev commented · Dec 18, 2023 at 11:45 AM

Agree and not agree @enodev

I'm more sharing ideas with the community because there is a Venus OS Large functionality, which kind of puts Cerbo GX to its limits.

Having customizable hardware is something definitely for advanced users, but, frankly speaking, the whole idea of Venus OS is mostly a magnet for advanced users, cause babysitters( no offense) have no time to tweak ESS via Node-RED dev node build. )))

Regarding the stability concerns you put in your comment - by finally having Realtime OS Patch in recent versions of Linux there is a way to put critical subsystems into a realtime scenario when even on 100% CPU it will work.

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andrii-podanenko commented · Dec 18, 2023 at 12:00 PM

Thank you for your response @mvader (Victron Energy)

> I’ve been considering more powerful hardware now and then, but the issue is that it isn’t needed for 99% of the users, maybe even 99.9%.

That's why the idea of pluggable add-ons for motherboards could work. Something like Mikrotik is doing for their routers, and not only. Agree for 99% of users not the case, but Victron did a great job of having Cerbo GX and even CCGX devices, which are plug&play&do_not_touch_it_is_working

> SPF+: same thing: optical is rather niche.
converting from simple RJ45 to SFP+ port - keeps both RJ45, SFP/SFP+ copper, SFP/SFP+ optical in one port. Installing an optical network in a new home is a better solution in comparison to copper. Less power consumption. In Ukraine, due to harsh grid conditions(not our fault), optics play a safety role in keeping our broadband internet working during blackouts.

> The Ekrano has twice the CPU power as the Cerbo, and both are plenty for all normal use cases, including Node-RED.
But it still has a lack of RAM, while having something like Home Assistant, or mentioned zigbee2mqtt running on a device, connected via DC to a 5+kWh battery bank could make home automation way more stable. This needs at least 4G.
Also, Node-RED can eat all the ram, even Victron docs saying "Be careful with resources"

Do you have step by step onboarding tutorial for the Open Embedded system of Victron? How to rebuild it on local env - would be cool to check