SeeLevel Tank Monitoring with Venus OS 2.9

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zach-d asked Sep 20, '22

SeeLevel Tank Monitoring with Venus OS 2.9

The blog post detailing the release of Venus OS 2.90 mention that there is now SeeLevel tank monitoring support:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2022/09/13/venus-os-v2-90-generator-controls-in-vrm-remote-ve-can-rv-c-venus-os-large-and-more/

I have a few questions about this. Prior to this release I believe only the 709-N2K versions of the panels were compatible and they were difficult to get - exclusive to Airstream as an OEM.

1) Does the new Venus OS support the RV-C version (709-RVC-PM for example)?

2) If so, how does one wire this up to the Cerbo GX? Is it to one of the VE.Can connections (RJ45)? There are three wires on the SeeLevel for RVC (photo below). How would these get wired up to an RJ45 UTP cable?

Hopefully someone has tested this and has some info!

Thanks,
Zach

cerbo gx Venus OS VE.Can

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Answer 1 · 2022-09-20T03:56:19Z

Kevin Windrem answered · Sep 20, 2022 at 03:56 AM

Until recently, SeeLevel N2K systems were a OEM product but you could request one from Garnet Instruments. I've been using one for several years now. I saw the 709-N2K system for sale on the Garnet web site so presumably this is now readily available to everyone.

Connection is via a CANbus interface which is built in to Cerbo and CCGX as well as others. If no built-in CANbus interface is provided, low cost USB CANbus adapters are available. For Raspberry PI, CANbus hats are also available.

Starting with v2.90, RV-C to a SeeLevel 709-RVC is possible. The main interface in Cerbo and CCGX can be set to RV-C, however if you have other N2K devices, a second or third CANbus interface is required and is supported in v2.90.

In the v2.90 release notes, it was mentioned that the SeeLevel RV-C systems don't report absolute tank capacity so these systems will only display a a percentage of tank capacity.

SeeLevel RV-C and N2K systems are limited to 3 tanks so if you have more than 3 tanks a second system would be required or alternates such as the Mopeka fresh water sensors would be required.

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kurtinge commented · Sep 20, 2022 at 09:37 AM

Seems like this solution is a good option for retrofitting sensors and also get the infromation into the Victron. The N2K is quite expensive and it seems like they do not ship to Europe. I might try to follow the Mopeka path instead as the installation of the Mopeka is straight forward and works out of the box

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Answer 2 · 2022-09-20T08:46:30Z

mvader (Victron Energy) answered · Sep 20, 2022 at 08:46 AM

Hi zach-d,

1) Does the new Venus OS support the RV-C version (709-RVC-PM for example)?

Yes it does. No more need for the special 709-N2K. Do note that on the GX you have to choose the function of its VE.Can port. You can use it either for VE.Can/N2K. Or for RV-C. Which means that installing a Garnet Seelevel RV-C effectively makes it impossible to use that port to connect to a Victron device using VE.Can. Just like Kevin explained above.

Worded differently: If you are going to buy a Garnet Seelevel especially for connecting to the Victron system, then I'd recommend getting yourselves the Garnet Seelevel N2K model. This is from a technical point of view: I don't know if there is a price difference.

On the other hand, if your RV comes with a Garnet Seelevel RV-C module preinstalled, then you can consider hooking it up to the Cerbo - if indeed your VE.Can port is not yet used -, and change its configuration from its default (VE.Can/N2K) to RV-C.

2) If so, how does one wire this up to the Cerbo GX? Is it to one of the VE.Can connections (RJ45)? There are three wires on the SeeLevel for RVC (photo below). How would these get wired up to an RJ45 UTP cable?

Indeed it needs to be wired to the VE.Can port which is, RJ-45. Pinout is available in the datasheet.

Garnet Black (Ground) goes to Victron RJ-45 VE.Can pin 3
Garnet Blue (CAN Low) goes to Victron RJ-45 VE.Can pin 8
Garnet White (CAN High) goes to Victron RJ-45 VE.Can pin 7

See screenshots below for details. Note that not all RV-C pinouts are the same, and some Seelevel panels come with a connector for which I recommend you get a prewired contra with "flying leads" to prevent having to make/crimp such connector yourself.

We tested this ourselves, with a 709RVC-3856 (for which we had to make the mating connector).

Do note the one limitation: for the Garnet, tank levels shown on the Victron GX will be in percentage. Not actual volume in liters, gallons or another volume unit.

I’ll make sure we add information on how to connect a Garnet RV-C tank level sensor to the Cerbo user manual; thanks for asking!

Best regards, Matthijs

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gerald-bybee commented · Sep 22, 2022 at 01:05 AM

Is it possible to connect the SeeLevel SENSOR that is attached to a holding tank directly to the Cerbo in a similar manner to a resistive tank float sensor? Or is the complete SeeLevel Tank Monitor including the display required to interpret the signals from the sensor strip?

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Kevin Windrem gerald-bybee commented · Sep 22, 2022 at 04:13 AM

The SeeLevel sensor can not be connected directly to theG. Device (Cerbo). You see the main unit to interpret the sensor data

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gerald-bybee Kevin Windrem commented · Sep 22, 2022 at 03:39 PM

Thanks, I suspected as much. Would be great if Victron or Garnet could write algorithm to translate Sl sender data into Cerbo displayable data. Cerbo accepts various standard resistive info algorithms. So if Seelevel sender data could be translated to a corresponding resistance level within the Cerbo it would greatly simplify installs and retrofits. . But perhaps Cerbo isn’t capable of that translation logic. I installed Seelevel sensors and panel display in my RV for several tanks but not in my boat. Boat doesn’t have a fresh water tank float resistive sensor but would be very easy to apply the SL strip to the poly tank. It Just Seems expensive and redundant to install a SL panel just for Cerbo sensor translation and RV-C or N2k output for small water system.

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Kevin Windrem gerald-bybee commented · Sep 22, 2022 at 03:45 PM

Not sure what SeeLevel is using for their communications with their sensors. I suspect it is digital and probably proprietary both hardware and software.

I believe the cost of Mopeak vs SeeLevel is about the same including the main SeeLevel unit, so ….

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gerald-bybee Kevin Windrem commented · Sep 22, 2022 at 04:56 PM

from Garnet:

The Sender: Each sender panel is a flexible self-adhesive printed circuit board which is adhered to the side of the holding tank. The sender panel can be cut to length to match the height of the tank, and it auto calibrates itself so that it can read from Empty to Full regardless of the height of the tank. The sender scans the water level through the tank wall using advanced digital techniques programmed into the sender microprocessor. When the sender transmits the water or sewer level information to the display, it sends a digital code that has built in error detection, making it highly unlikely for the display to read an incorrect level, even if the wiring is marginal. In addition to the level, the sender also transmits diagnostic information about its operation. This information can be used to determine if there is buildup of sludge on the inside of the tank, or to determine if the sender is damaged or delaminating from the side of the tank.

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orangecrush commented · Dec 12, 2022 at 03:57 PM

So why is the display limited to reading only percent on SeeLevel tanks using RVC interface and will absolute volume be added in the future?

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Answer 3 · 2022-09-20T15:48:21Z

zach-d answered · Sep 20, 2022 at 03:48 PM

Thanks everyone, very helpful!

I think I will be best off with the N2K version of the SeeLevel but I am also now intrigued by the Mopeka option.

Is the wiring between the SeeLevel N2K and the VE.Can RJ-45 connection the same as it would be with the RV-C version?

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Stefanie (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Sep 21, 2022 at 12:20 PM

@Zach D

The short answer is yes except that you need to build a small and terminated network for this to work. See also: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/92493/connect-ccgx-to-seelevel-n2k-tank-monitor-interfac.html

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Answer 4 · 2022-10-06T13:32:48Z

wtf answered · Oct 06, 2022 at 01:32 PM

Not answer, but more a relating question...
With regard to the SeeLevel sensors, I am a bit confused.

Seelevel's documentation indicates that these cannot be connected without the panel; however, if I read this correctly, if we connect using the VE.CanRJ45 connector, this IS possible. Is this correct?
2nd: how are 3 sensors connected with one RJ45 (newbie question, but I have not see this outlined).

3rd: on the Mopeka side, Where are these even available? when I searched, all I return is their LPG module.

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Kevin Windrem commented · Oct 06, 2022 at 03:14 PM

SeeLevel sensors can NOT be connected directly to a GX device. You need the N2K (or now RV-C) version of the SeeLevel display unit to make CANbus data which is then connected to the GX device via a VE.Can connection.

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Answer 5 · 2022-10-06T17:10:13Z

wudwork answered · Oct 06, 2022 at 05:10 PM

1. Seelevel sensors all connect to the same (2) wires. BLUE=signal, BLK=ground

2. The back of display has (3) wires. RED=V+, BLK=ground, BLUE=signal

3. The back of N2K or RVC display has another connector for handoff to N2k or RVC network.

4. The job of the display is to convert the data from sensors (on BLUE wire) into meaningful data and both display it locally as well as hand that data off to the N2k or RVC network.

5. N2k or RVC displays are limited to 3 tanks. FRESH, BLACK and GREY. If you have (2) grays, like I do, you need to put a toggle switch to control which tank level is displayed as well as sent to N2k.

6. Garnet Industries is showing on their website their new "Soul" device. This does the same data conversion as the N2k and RVC displays but has 2 distinct differences.

a. Soul supports MANY more sensors and will send those out to RVC.

b. Soul does NOT have a display.

c. Soul is not available to us, just yet. Website clearly says "OEM ......."

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corvus commented · Oct 06, 2022 at 06:21 PM

Thanks for the clarifications. Its a bummer that the soul is not available to end users.

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Kevin Windrem corvus commented · Oct 06, 2022 at 06:26 PM

The N2K version was not generally available for many years but could be obtained by contacting Garnet. Give them a call or email them and see if one can be had.

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Answer 6 · 2023-07-14T01:14:52Z

olivier-hecht answered · Jul 14, 2023 at 01:14 AM

In case it helps anyone else, I just replaced my SeeLevel 709-BTP3 with a 709-RVC PM to get the tank level information into my Cerbo GX. The wiring information from mvader along with the RJ45 pinout information in the Cerbo manual worked.

The feature information on the Garnet site and wiring diagrams there are really wrong and confusing though. I emailed them a few times and was told that the alarm output on my Bluetooth model wouldn’t work for the RVC model. However, the wiring harness that came with the RVC model was identical to the one from my Bluetooth model except it was missing the green LPG wire which makes sense. This doesn’t match the wiring diagram on the site (below), but it was great that the panel plugged right into my existing wiring and the alarm output worked fine. This also means there are no CANBUS/RVC connections on the main connector as indicated on the wiring diagram - the connector and harness match the Bluetooth model except for the green LPG wire.

There also isn’t a separate connector for the RVC interface as pictured in the diagram, but there are three wires soldered to the board there (ground, CANBUS+, and CANBUS-). So the installation was better and easier for me as I was able to retain my LED tank alarm and have the integration to Cerbo, but the diagrams and information from Garnet don’t indicate this.

Also, the pump switch is momentary on the RVC model for some ridiculous reason, but I was able to easily swap it out with the latched switch from my Bluetooth model. Garnet definitely needs to update their customer service training and website information…

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