question

d-winterburn avatar image
d-winterburn asked

VE.Smart Orion-Tr Smart networking

Any update on VE.Smart networking for the Orion Smart Tr DC to DC chargers? I'll have an MPPT and two 30A DC to DC chargers and it would be excellent if they all knew each other on the same battery bank.


[moderator's note: edited to show "VE.Smart Networking" rather than "VE.Bus Networking"]

MPPT Controllersbattery charging
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neil-dawson avatar image neil-dawson commented ·

+1 for Victron to resolve


when I made this purchase it was unclear that “smart” simply meant that it would provide a status to an app, and not actually take any smart INPUTs, which is incredibly misleading and frustrating

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npm108 avatar image npm108 neil-dawson commented ·
Wish I had found this thread before as just feel prey to the same thing. Why call it Smart if it isn't Smart at all and can't speak to the other Victron devices, temp sensors etc. Gutted :(
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Gaëtan Guéraud avatar image Gaëtan Guéraud commented ·
This seems to be the most voted question and also the one with the most activity! Come on Victron we want networking on the Orion!
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Gordon Clement avatar image Gordon Clement commented ·

I am waiting for news about this also... I could really use some more charge current from my current Orion but I am definitely not going to drop another $250 to parallelize when I still can't even see/control the Orion from my CCGX/venus/VRM.

However, I would absolutely drop money on a new DC/DC charger that had networking/venus/VRM integration.

Please Victron?

I know the community guidelines say that victron won't talk about new products here. could you at least tell us if this is something victron is even working on? Are we waiting for nothing? It seems to me like a major hole in victron's line, especially where a major draw to the victron ecosystem is the system-wide integration. Is there no demand? Am I missing something?

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Gordon Clement avatar image Gordon Clement commented ·

commenting to address moderator's note: "edited to show "VE.Smart Networking" rather than "VE.Bus Networking"


fair enough, obviously there is no way to add ve.bus ports to existing hardware. orion tr-smart only has bluetooth. so a secondary question: is there any hints anyone can give us that victron might please someday add a dc/dc charger to their product line with either ve.bus/ve.direct/ve.can onboard? please?


even if ve.smart integration came to existing orions via a firmware update, it's my understanding that still wouldn't bring them up to the level of integration present in MPPTs or multi's etc. in a venus system or a GX controlled/DVCC system. Am I wrong?

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marvs avatar image marvs commented ·

I think that adding VE.Smart networking would be fairly easy for them to add because it already exists over bluetooth for the SmartSolar controllers. My understanding is that the purpose for this is to synchronize/coordinate charging between all the devices so that they are all simultaneously in the one, same charge mode; and that they can share temp., voltage, and current sense information. I suspect that because the DC-DC chargers may have been ’hurried’ to market because it was a hole in their product line, that Victron hasn’t finished the necessary software coding, firmware updates and testing needed to include this feature.

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evan991 avatar image evan991 marvs commented ·

Agreed. I was under the impression this would be one of the features already having bluetooth.

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kiltym avatar image kiltym commented ·
Add me to the list of wanting this feature. Being limited to 6AWG wire is going to cause a voltage drop. Not being able to use the shunt to provide accurate voltage readings to the Orion is disappointing since it works with the solar chargers..... Ay updates to add this functionality?
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dainl avatar image dainl commented ·
I'll add myself to the list of waiting and wondering... I've owned this thing for over a year and it's the only "dumb" device that can't network with my other victron device.


Be nice to at least be told it is not going to happen... "Smart"


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steveuk71 avatar image steveuk71 commented ·
+1 for me.

In my VW T5 I now have the Smart Shunt and Smart Solar connected using Bluetooth and VE.Smart networking. Two great advantages these 'Smart Devices' can now use the Temp sensor so Solar will not charge the Lithium battery on freezing cold days. The other advantage is the useful quick summary info in the Victron app.


However the very 'NOT SMART' ORION can't join this party. So I will have to manually isolate the DC charging when starting van on cold winter mornings. Come on Victron please make the ORION SMART???

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40 Answers
ecuashungo avatar image
ecuashungo answered ·

I would love to see this feature as well, and it would be fairly easy via a firmware upgrade. I have a setup where a smart solar is hooked up in parallel with an Orion smart so I can use both to charge my battery. I don't dare to try to use both at the same time, but I imagine, that with the VE.smart networking it would be possible, which would facilitate the operation.
Hopefully we can get some news here.

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trollan avatar image
trollan answered ·

Agree I am waiting for a solution also - multiple charges to the same bank - EXCEPT this DC to DC charger... crazy

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Sarah avatar image
Sarah answered ·

I too am waiting for a VE.Direct / Orion product to be released as well so that I can get a fully informed view on my Cerbo. System integration falls a long way short without this feature in the lineup! Please kind people at Victron put me out of my continued torment and anguish soon !

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marvs avatar image
marvs answered ·

I guess there are a bunch of us waiting. My thinking is that the charging profiles can be better coordinated and use a single battery SOC monitor (SmartShunt) to provide the battery SOC, temp, volatge, etc. to all devices that are charging the battery bank. I think this is even more desirable with the DC-DC chargers since they have to monitor their DC input status as well as what they are sending to the battery bank. Maybe it doesn’t matter in the long run to a battery bank with BMS but I like the idea of using my CCGX and/or bluetooth to know what’s going on.

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ironman avatar image
ironman answered ·

+1 for also waiting

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markbuilt avatar image
markbuilt answered ·

+1 waiting here too. I’d buy two Orion Tr 12/12 30A units if I new VE.Smart Network functionality was coming anytime soon. Does VE pay attention to customer requests like this?

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Gordon Clement avatar image
Gordon Clement answered ·

Honestly blows my mind a little bit that Victron's major value proposition is providing all the components for an integrated system around the GX family of devices/Venus OS/VRM Portal, and yet there is no solution for DC/DC charging that provides first class integration into that platform.

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frank-farrugia avatar image
frank-farrugia answered ·

And I'll add another to the waiting list, as I just added two 12/12/30's to my dual alternator truck

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pepe1395 avatar image
pepe1395 answered ·

+1 for the waiting list

Ciao!

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xcurrent avatar image
xcurrent answered ·

How would I know when this is fixed? Waiting.....

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lorin avatar image
lorin answered ·

Come on Victron, at least give us something…..

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drlbradley avatar image
drlbradley answered ·

add me to the list of customers waiting for this.

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eupeixoto avatar image
eupeixoto answered ·

Im also waiting for this ....

we can keep an eye on this website.. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:beta


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yuwire avatar image
yuwire answered ·

This states victron connect integration? Could it connect to the ground via Bluetooth?


https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart

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Martin Keogh avatar image
Martin Keogh answered ·

VE.Smart Networking for Blue Smart Charger and Orion Smart Tr DC to DC charger.
I was just about to purchase two of these Victron devices but I have cancelled the order (NZD$849.00) as the local agent says that they don't connect to the VE.Smart Network!
I know for a fact that the Blue Smart Charger (version dependant) does!
I like the product but Come on Victron, I will not spend any more on your product until this is sorted!

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nick-riley avatar image nick-riley commented ·

Great job. The threshold we need to meet for Victron to redesign a product is NZD$999.00. If you could place another order and cancel it that would be a big help.

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Philip Barclay avatar image
Philip Barclay answered ·

I am in a similar situation to @Martin Keogh , I was about to order a bunch of Victron items including; a Smart Solar MPPT charger, Smart Battery Sense, and an Orion-TR Smart DC/DC converter. These are all for in a van with a LiFePO4 battery and will likely be in sub-zero conditions. When I first looked at these items I assumed they would all be VE.Smart compatible given the 'Smart' in their names, but alas, not for the Orion-TR. I am now reconsidering my options and since I will only have partial integration with a Victron solution I might as well save a bit of money and use other brands.

Please Victron, update the Orion-TR to support VE.Smart.

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joeccv avatar image
joeccv answered ·

Victron is losing a lot of Orions to the Renogy DC to DC charger over this. For one, it provides 60 amps of charge current, which you'd need two Orions to provide. Take away the ability to speak to the shunt and it becomes harder and harder to justify the Orion...

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zac avatar image
zac answered ·

also wanting VRM integration for the Orion-tr series.

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Noisy Boysie avatar image
Noisy Boysie answered ·

thats anoying...I just ordered one for my motorhome...guess i'll cancle then :( as no BT smart networking no idea how it will all react to the already insalled MPPTs while driving in the sun. disapointed SMART doesnt mean smart

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p-rhodan avatar image
p-rhodan answered ·

The same is true for me. Have MPPT Smart Solar, Smart Shunt and Venus OS on RPI.


Currently I use a Votronic 1212-30 charge booster which I would like to replace with an Orion Smart Tr. but due to the lack of VE.smart network support I will not.

I unfortunately do not get the communication between MPPT solar controller, Smartshunt and Orion because of this. Too bad, too bad, too bad....

I thought Victron is a premium manufacturer and understands what the customer wants. Seems not to be so.

Sometimes I can not understand the marketing and product development at companies


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Philip Barclay avatar image
Philip Barclay answered ·

To me it seems the Orion-TR was a product rushed to market with many features removed to improve delivery time and/or price point. Then when the marketing dept got hold of it they slapped the 'smart' label on it even though this is inconsistent with the work usage on other products.

The result of this is a product that looks good on the website, but rather misleading to users and setting them up for failure. You don't need to look far to find many mentions of people ordering these with the wrong assumptions about product features.

@p_rhodan Depending on your level of keenness there might be a way of at least extracting some numbers from the Orion-TR using this: https://github.com/birdie1/victron But even with that you wont get the output current, seems the hardware inside the Orion cannot measure that. Also doesn't help with coordinated charging between various devices.

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ironman avatar image
ironman answered ·

Any update from Victron on this? I’ve been holding off buying a B2B charger hoping for an updated version of the Orion but refuse to pay for “smart” features if they’re not actually smart and integrate with the rest of the system. Ill be looking for other options from Renogy etc if this doesn’t appear soon.

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clicker avatar image
clicker answered ·

+1 When Victron please? I have 2 orions in parallel charging my Lifepo bank + 1 MPPT + Battery Sense and Battery protect - all smart. I would really like some control of the Orion and integration on the network. This should be a priority development given the popularity of this product. Any dates in sight for a firmware upgrade ? Thanks

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aluizio avatar image
aluizio answered ·

I also bought 2 Orion-Tr Smart and SmartShunt+TempSensor thinking that they share temperature info via Smart Network... Waiting for this feature as I cannot cancel my purchase anylonger...

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Jan Neumann avatar image
Jan Neumann answered ·

I'm also waiting for VE smart networking via Bluetooth for my Orion TR smart to connect it with the smart shunt and the mppt charger in my RV!

Victron please let your customers at least know if and when this will be added to the Orions firmware.

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bradraut avatar image
bradraut answered ·

Does anyone know if this has happened yet or if there are plans for the VE Network of the Orion?

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burntjaffle avatar image
burntjaffle answered ·

Also wanting this feature deperately!

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essentia avatar image
essentia answered ·

After two years of customers pleading with Victron to add VRM integration I would think Victron would make this a priority. I need this and hope it will be added soon.

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jefffay avatar image
jefffay answered ·

C'mon Victron! I just bought two Orion-Tr chargers thinking this functionality was in there. Let's get it done or at least put us out of our misery....

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goingblue avatar image
goingblue answered ·

Hate to pile on with the "me too", but I just ordered Renogy 50A unit instead of pair of Victron 30A units to replace a Chargemate Pro 40. Both have bluetooth and neither integrate with VE smart networking. If Victron comes out with a 50A unit with VE networking, current sensing, and relay to control a fan, then I'll consider replacing the Renogy.

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nate avatar image
nate answered ·

I'm not buying any more Victron kit until this is resolved. I consider the smart in the orion-tr smart to be an outright lie. I can't do anything smart with it. To me the minimum I'd accept before I outlay another dollar on Victron kit is Venus support of the Bluetooth network to monitor the little data that is available for these units, but ultimately we need to be able to control charge rate and state rather than relying on a dumb remote relay that every other vendor sells for half the price.


The fact that they can OTA update these things and haven't even bothered speaks volumes about the perceived value of their customer base. What would it take, an engineer's afternoon?


As others have said, we can forget about the VE.Direct port, sadly. But how about make the "smart" bluetooth interface actually do something, Victron?

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npm108 avatar image
npm108 answered ·

EU laws for false representation and "not fit for purpose" are pretty strict so I can't understand how engineering have allowed marketing to do this.

From their datasheet "Bluetooth Smart enabled Any Bluetooth enabled smart phone, tablet or other device can be used to monitor, to change settings and to update the charger when new software features become available " - or other device...easy for people to assume that means other Victron Smart devices can network with it, even though it doesn't specifically state V.E. Networking.

However now using a fine tooth comb to scour through their website datasheet right at the bottom in small text:

Note 1: The VictronConnect App will not display current in or current out.

Note 2: The Orion-Tr Smart is not equipped with a VE.Direct port.

So there you have it folks....that's how they cover themselves legally but having just bought one I feel this is not fit for purpose and will be returning it. If it can't even display the output current it's sending to the batteries I have little hope it will ever get V.E. Networking over Bluetooth.

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datsports avatar image
datsports answered ·

i am gutted . not so much about the lack of VE network capability , though thats now one of two reasons i will pull back from ordering an Orion TX 12/12 30 .

even the AC/DC Victron blue smart charger has VE,

and i notice it falls way short of a comprehensive charge without the smart shunt paired via VE for voltage sense . its blatantly slow with out it and does not complete a charge fully.

this alone leaves me sceptical about even the (smartness) of that product .

i think all this smart labelling is just smoke and mirrors to justify the cost of these products . though the MPPT chargers are worth every penny . i'll stand by that .

but i'm super gutted this device is un able to (manually throttle charge current) , i think this is a must , there are two kicks to the teeth with this Smart Dumb product (Orion). i was this close to buying it $430 nzd until my research prevailed .

and at $100 more than an actually smart MPPT charger with VE- and current control ,

its now a no go for me . its a glorified dc-dc bluetooth buck converter with an expensive blue cover on it . worth $200nzd at best

if this issue is resolved i'll come grovelling back with cash in hand .

but until then sorry Victron thats a fail .

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jeepcamper avatar image
jeepcamper answered ·

I’ve fallen victim to the marketing team as well. Last week I fired up my new IP22 and Tr-Smart with a BMV-712…then wasted an hour trying to figure out how to join the TR to the bluetooth network. Uh…it’s not possible.


Luckily I’m only in the hole for $800 bucks worth of gear. I guess I’ll add solar to operate with the IP22 and only use the DC-DC when I have no choice while boondocking.


Please fix this Victron!

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npm108 avatar image
npm108 answered ·

I guess the key message here is that one really needs to look in depth when evaluating a Victron product and check out the fine print, as otherwise you can easily get misled by the 'Smart' functionality.

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clicker avatar image
clicker answered ·

Definitly needed. Victron, how about adding networking. Other request, I would like to see the Amps the Orions are putting out just likee on my Smart Solar. This is really lacking. The Orions are fairly expensive. The below par software is preventing me from buying one more for my boat.I have 2 already but I could do with the extra amps if only they would talk to each other and to the MPPT !

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buchner-engelbrecht avatar image
buchner-engelbrecht answered ·

Please victron add the bluetooth networking and amps produced display, we beg you!

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steveuk71 avatar image
steveuk71 answered ·

In my VW T5 I now have the Smart Shunt and Smart Solar connected using Bluetooth and VE.Smart networking. Two great advantages these 'Smart Devices' can now use the Temp sensor so Solar will not charge the Lithium battery on freezing cold days. The other advantage is the useful quick summary info in the Victron app.


However the very 'NOT SMART' ORION can't join this party. So I will have to manually isolate the DC charging when starting van on cold winter mornings. Come on Victron please make the ORION SMART???


screenshot-2022-10-03-at-114748.png


screenshot-2022-10-03-at-114809.png



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dennis84 avatar image
dennis84 answered ·

Still nothing from Victron on this topic? Recently purchased an Orion and was surprised that it has no VE.Smart Networking capabilities.

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clicker avatar image
clicker answered ·

Why not even an answer from Victron on this issue. Like, "we will add networking by ...." or "we will never add networking for this reason...."? This is a serious gap in the victron ecosystem. Thanks.

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