Fronius + Multiplus energymeter

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peternielsen asked Nov 24, '20

Fronius + Multiplus energymeter

Hi,

Guy Stewart mentions in this webinar https://youtu.be/Fm6FdpClLBo?t=3541 that you should not use Fronius Smartmeter in a ESS system but then in the diagram right after it's shown, is that a mistake ?

My house is running 3 phase system and consumption is across those 3 phases which is normal here Denmark. I was planning getting a one phases Fronius Primo 3kw and a Multiplus II 3000VA. Install the Fronius on AC IN meaning on the grid directly (not on the AC OUT) and of course a grid meter EM24 Ethernet that is recommended so both Fronius and Multi are one phase. The ESS documentation states to place the Multi on L1 but the fronius should be on what phase ? Doesn't matter ? Is there a required of a second energy meter in this setup ? In denmark most of us have new grid meters from the energy company which summs up on all phases so consuming on one phase 1kw and producing on another phase 1kw yields 0w usage e.g no penalty or cost therefore no need for 3phase inverter.

/peter

Fronius

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Answer 1 · 2020-11-24T07:47:57Z

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Nov 24, 2020 at 07:47 AM

Hi @peternielsen,

That diagram is wrong for that presentation, and that circled energy meter is not required in a Fronius system (where the Fronius is connected via ethernet to the GX device). That diagram is for another type of AC PV inverter that does NOT have the built in communications support that Fronius has. Apologies for the confusion there.

If you are consuming on all phases, then you are correct to get the EM24, that will communicate the loads across the phases to the GX device, which can then decide how to allocate the power available.

Both Fronius and Victron should be on Phase 1.

A second energy meter is not required.

8

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peternielsen commented · Nov 24, 2020 at 08:09 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) once again thank you for the clarification on this. So it seems i got my questions answers but if both Fronius and Multi is on the same phase e.g L1 then they will produce to much for a what a single phase cabling in a normal house would be for example if the Fronius goes full at 3kw and the Multi also provide 3kw then that's 26A and that would not be allowed when max usually is 16A on one phase, is there a reason one cannot set the Fronius to another phase for example L2 and Multi on L1, the GX will know from the EM24 who produces on what phase. What am i missing ?

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peternielsen commented · Nov 24, 2020 at 08:16 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:fronius 2.2.2 6. shows a screenshot that one can chose the position for the fronius, is that now what i want ? I mean set the Fronius to L2 then Multi to L1 then let the GX together with ESS control both Fronius and Multi with the input from the EM24 depending on the loads that are in the house ?

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ peternielsen commented · Nov 24, 2020 at 09:41 AM

That will also work fine.

It's generally a good idea of have them on the same phase where possible. But not essential.

Depending on where the AC PV is in the system (i.e. AC output), the advantage of the same phase is that it may remain productive during grid outage.

But it sounds like you have other system limitations that are higher priority than that.

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peternielsen Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented · Nov 24, 2020 at 10:14 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) Great then i will place Fronius on L2/L3 so i can use the Fronius on full throttle and the same with Multiplus. In Denmark we have very rare maybe once a year a power outage so i think it makes most sense to place the Fronius on the grid directly aka AC IN, in that case it will never be productive regardless the phase it's on or am i missing someting ? I understand that if i place the Fronius on the AC OUT then it can be productive incase of outage but then there are other restrictions as you mentioned in the Webinar and since the outage are rare here i only see the benefit of placing it on AC IN.

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peternielsen Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented · Nov 26, 2020 at 07:39 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) Sorry but did i get above right ?

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ peternielsen commented · Nov 26, 2020 at 08:57 AM

At this level of detail, it would be best to talk to an experienced local installer.

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peternielsen commented · Nov 24, 2020 at 09:00 AM

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) trying to go thru the documentation but can't seem to find this detail on why the Fronius need to be on the same phase as the Multi. hmmm..... If that's the requirement i don't see the big benefit since i can't use the potential of both inverters.

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christofferthoresen peternielsen commented · Jan 10, 2023 at 08:25 PM

@peternielsen - Greetings from Norway! I found this thread and wondering how it went. Did you solved it by connecting Victron on L1 and Fronius L2? Any issues

My goal is to connect a 5KVA MP II. and a Fronius in a 3-phase 220 IT grid in the best way.

Best

Christoffer :=)

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