Quattro Assistant Setup

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ewalderasmus asked Jul 15, '20

Quattro Assistant Setup

Good day everyone.

I am struggling to set up my assistants on my 8kVA quattro, and was hoping that someone could help.

Need: To reduce the time that AC2 takes to reconnect after mains fails/gen starts and assumed load and Gen/Mains returns.

For instance, when mains is lost AC2 is turned off, and only after the generator is running for a minute and a bit does it get turned back on. I know this is to allow the generator to start up and get to speed, but it does the exact same thing when mains returns. For instance, when mains returns it first turns off AC2 transfers the load from the gen to the inverter then to mains, and then again after a minute or so AC2 is turned back on.

This time is too long for me. Ideally, I would like it to be 30seconds or so form when the generator assumes the load and 10seconds when mains returns.

I have tried to use the Assistants (Programmable relay) to make this happen but the issue I am having is when mains returns and the gen is running. It doesn't turn off AC2.

Can anyone help or give me a simpler solution on how to implement this. I have tried now a few combinations of assistants which have not worked for me, I will put images of my attempts.

On a side note, I feel like this should be a setting in an update, a simple time-based setting which users can adjust to change how long it takes.

Assistant set 1:

The result of this assistant set was:
1. When mains failed (ACin1) and the generator (ACin2) wasnt running ACout 2 was turned off.

2. The generator (ACin2) turned on (triggered by the Venus).

3. Roughly 30 seconds later ACout 2 was then turned on.

4. When mains returned, the system was overloaded as ACout2 was not turned off during the change over.

Assistant set 2:

The result of this assistant set was:
1. When mains failed (ACin1) and the generator (ACin2) wasnt running ACout 2 was turned off.

2. The generator (ACin2) turned on (triggered by the Venus).

3. Roughly 30 seconds later ACout 2 was then turned on. (so far all going perfectly)

4. When mains returned and the unit attempted to do the changeover, but it was noted that ACout2 as still on, hence it would have overloaded if more appliances were running.

Assistant set 3:

The result of this assistant set was:
1. When mains failed (ACin1) and the generator (ACin2) wasnt running ACout 2 was turned off.

2. The generator (ACin2) turned on (triggered by the Venus).

3. Roughly 30 seconds later ACout 2 was then turned on. (so far all going perfectly)

4. When mains returned and the unit attempted to do the changeover, but it was noted that ACout2 as still on, hence it would have overloaded if more appliances were running.This was exactly the same as the previous assistant set.

5. It was noted that if the gen was not running, and mains restored then ACout2 would engage 30 seconds after it is present. So as it stands I am having issues with ACout2 turning off during the change back scenario, where ACin1 and ACin2 are present together.

Regards

Ewald

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger Assistants

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harold commented · Jul 15, 2020 at 09:13 PM

Looking Ok

Maybe the hardware is to slow, incomming switches of AC1 and AC2 in?

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ewalderasmus harold commented · Jul 16, 2020 at 07:16 AM

Hi @Harold

Thanks for the feedback. I dont think it will be a hardware issue as it works fine for some instances but not others. I think its more that I cant write the logic in a manner which the Victron understands. It would be much easier if there were AND and OR options.

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harold ewalderasmus commented · Jul 16, 2020 at 07:33 AM

See some other posts about assistants, but I think it is:

Between different assistants it is OR

Within one assistant it is OR too!

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ewalderasmus commented · Jul 16, 2020 at 07:28 AM

Is there anyone from Victron which can help with this? @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

Also is it possible for it to be recommended as a setting in future updates?

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ewalderasmus commented · Jul 17, 2020 at 11:36 AM

@mvader (Victron Energy)@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

Is there anyone from Victron that can comment or help with this?

I see you guys have been very quiet the last few days.

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ewalderasmus answered · Aug 20, 2020 at 11:15 AM

I have recently spent a good number of hours of trouble shooting this. And have come to the conclusion it is not possible to shorten the time AC2 takes to turn on after the transfer switch has changed sources.

No combination of assistants has allowed for me to turn off ACout2 when transferring from the gen to mains.

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2020-07-17T12:48:11Z

JohnC answered · Jul 17, 2020 at 12:48 PM

Hi @EwaldErasmus

I don't represent Victron, nor am I an Assistants expert. So take this as you find it..

The Assistants will work in the order listed. Important then to arrange them correctly, which can be easily done with the up/down buttons on the main screen. I can see issues in the order you've used in the examples you've supplied, so try rearranging them. Like a cooking recipe.. no good putting the pie in the oven until the filling is in the pastry. :)

I'd be wary of using "0 seconds", but you could test this once you get something up & running close to what you're after.

Also with 2x ac terminals, both in & out, it helps us to follow you in the text if you specify which.

Daniel Boekel is the Assistants guru here, but he may be indisposed right now. Have another go yourself, and maybe summon him using the "@" function if you're desperate.

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ewalderasmus commented · Jul 17, 2020 at 02:03 PM

Hi @JohnC

Thank you for this.

I am aware of the order issue. And that's why I tried so many variations

In my last set you will see I tried to do it in the order in which it would normally go.

1. Mains falls away, and generator hasn't started yet, so both ACin (any) is not available, hence set ACout 2 off.

2. Generator (ACin2) running for 30 Seconds and hence you can turn AC out 2 on.

3. Mains (ACin1) restored. Turn off ACout2.

4. Mains (ACin1) restored for longer (30 seconds) so turn on ACout2.

I totally agree about the 0s condition, but I am not having issues with it. It seems to work as expected in step 1 and 2. For instance, when mains falls away ACout2 it turned off (opened) instantly which is exactly what I need.

The issue I am having is that there are no criteria or combinations (that I can think of) which satisfy the following: When transferring from ACin2 to ACin2 (Gen to mains) turn off ACout2 (open), and then when on ACin1 (mains) turn ACout2 back on (close)

I have tried to directly message Daniel, and other Victron staff but it looks like they are all mia. I see they haven't commented for a while now, maybe its a holiday or something.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ ewalderasmus commented · Jul 17, 2020 at 02:31 PM

Hi @EwaldErasmus

I've been quite busy, but also it's a community forum, where members are supposed to help each other.

In order to get better answers, please edit your first post and tell us what the results are of each assistant setup you've provided screenshots for.

I also still have to try a couple of times before I get a setup correct ;)

@mentioning me or others can be quite annoying when someone screams for attention without providing relevant information.

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ewalderasmus Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 20, 2020 at 11:49 AM

Hi Daniel

As advised I have updated the question.

Essentially I am having an issue with turning off ACout 2 when ACin1 (mains) returns and ACin2 (gen) is currently on load. I am not sure what you can advise at the moment the system is working perfectly without any assistant, it just takes much longer than I would ideally want.

Essentially all I am looking to set up is an assistant set which simulated the default config of essential and nonessential loads but with a shorter waiting time.

Can you see any obvious errors in my assistant setup? Or is what I want to do a limitation/nonconfigurable limitation of the system?

Regards Ewald.

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ewalderasmus ewalderasmus commented · Jul 25, 2020 at 02:43 PM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

I just wanted to follow up if you were able to see any issues with my assistant setup.

regards Ewald

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Answer 2 · 2020-08-01T17:56:44Z

Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Aug 01, 2020 at 05:56 PM

Hi @EwaldErasmus

if AC-in2 is still available, the output will not switch off due to the 'if AC2 available - ON' rule.

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ewalderasmus commented · Aug 02, 2020 at 05:17 PM

Hi @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

Thank you, do you have any other suggestions of how one could achieve reducing the ACout 2 turn on time then?

regards Ewald

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ewalderasmus ewalderasmus commented · Jan 30, 2021 at 08:30 PM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) have you been able to give this any more thought?

I am still stuck in the same situation where I want ACout 2 to connect after 30 seconds instead of 2 minutes, especially when the grid returns, this should be standard the grid can take the additional load.

Is it possible to request that this be implemented as a simple setting?

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