question

racer-x avatar image
racer-x asked

Multiplus II's UL approved, but not MPPT controllers...what does this mean for US installation?

Hello-

I live in the United States and am interested in building an ESS system: panels connected to MPPT controller, then to battery bank and Multiplus II 48/3000/35-50 120v inverter with connection to the public grid. Cerbo GX as well as Lynx shunt in the system. My understanding is that this model of inverter is UL approved and can be used in the United States in systems that feed power back into the grid. I checked with a local solar panel installer who insisted that while some of the Multiplus inverters are UL approved, none of the MPPT charge controllers are, consequently they can't, and are not, installing grid connected Victron systems. Period.

Is this true everywhere in the US? Is anyone here back feeding to the grid using Victron inverters and MPPT charge controllers? Thanks in advance.

Multiplus-IIMPPT ControllersESS
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Michelle Konzack avatar image
Michelle Konzack answered ·

Since the MPPTs charging the Batteries and do not feed in directly like a GTI, solarchargers do not need an UL approval. You can install even any crappy Asia products

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racer-x answered ·

Yup. My thoughts as well. But I am not an electrician. And I have yet to find one in my area of the US willing to install a grid connected ESS using Victron components. Wonder how popular Victrons are becoming in other parts of the US now that the inverters are UL approved?

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racer-x avatar image racer-x commented ·
Is anyone else here in the United States who has a Victron system with MPPTs that is feeding (selling) electricity back to the public grid? There are electricians here that sell and install off-grid systems in RVs, boats, cabins etc who insist that grid feed is impossible with these devices. Seems as if Victron is missing a big share of the US marked by allowing this misconception to persist.
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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack racer-x commented ·
I do not know, how they have done it,

BUT you can find YouTube Videos of peoples in the USA

which feed-in using a Victron System.



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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ racer-x commented ·
The issue that would prevent exporting is typically a lack of a grid code which ESS requires to feed back. I haven't checked if one now exists.

Inverters tend to have an "other" grid code which iirc allows for exporting. Whether this is legal or not is down to local regs.

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racer-x avatar image racer-x racer-x commented ·
Any one aware of installers or vendors in the US that install or sell Victron packages intended for grid feed? My local utility specifically requires that the planning and install of a grid feed be done by a licensed and bonded electrician. In my area, all of the installers only do AC microinverter systems.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ racer-x commented ·
Have you tried any of the North American victron contacts listed on their website? The sales managers are all listed there and may be better placed to assist.
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Justin Cook avatar image Justin Cook ♦♦ racer-x commented ·
At this time, Victron components are not certified for feed back to the US grid.
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racer-x avatar image racer-x Justin Cook ♦♦ commented ·
What is your source for this statement?
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Justin Cook avatar image Justin Cook ♦♦ racer-x commented ·

Well besides being the technical support manager of the largest stocking Victron distributor on the West coast, and (as you can tell by hovering my name), a resident Victron expert, I've also asked this multiple times of Victron over the past 6 years.

At this time, Victron components are not certified for grid-feed to the North American grid. The UL1741 certs are great if you want to set it up in your house as a consumer, absolutely. But no feed back.

EDITING TO ADD: out-of-the-box, that is. I have heard of companies in the US being able to successfully use third-party components between the grid and, say, a Quattro to be able to circumvent certain limitations (location-dependent since regulations very dramatically across the US) but that's another story really.

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racer-x avatar image racer-x Justin Cook ♦♦ commented ·
Thanks Justin. I appreciate your response. I did not intend any offense, or to question your credibility. I am just looking for whatever certification or license that Victron hardware lacks which precludes it from being permitted to feed back into the grid.
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Justin Cook avatar image Justin Cook ♦♦ racer-x commented ·
Oh haha no worries about that, it's just been a topic of much discussion over the past years and sometimes I forget that it's a new question to the person asking it!


To be a bit more in depth on the issue, it's less a problem of the inverter/charger itself than a matter of the proper current sensor required between the grid and the inverter/charger that is both UL-approved and rated for 120V or 120/240; Victron 120V equipment does not have that built-in, at least not with the bidirectional resolution that's required, so it would need to be a 3rd-party current sensor that's approved for the application and that can communicate as necessary with the connected Victron system, which is a taller ask than it seems.

It's substantially simpler in the rest of the world where 230v is the standard - both because it's lower-current at higher voltage, but also because of course Victron had had roughly 30 more years to work on it for 230v grids than they have here; add in to that that the North American grid is rather woefully fractured between a wide array of providers, sources, and managing entities and it all gets a bit... complex.

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racer-x avatar image racer-x Justin Cook ♦♦ commented ·

Do you know if this is something Victron is actively looking to resolve? When you mean current sensor, is this something along the lines of the VM-3P75CT?

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Justin Cook avatar image Justin Cook ♦♦ racer-x commented ·
Well, I will say that I know it's on the list. But I'll also say that it's a very long list, and for a relatively small family-owned company like Victron with a product line numbering in the thousands along with millions of existing global installations requiring software and hardware support and updates, I'm quite certain that it's not at the top of that list - relatively speaking, the North American market is a small corner of the global industry that Victron is a large part of, so we do need to be a bit more patient here than we'd necessarily prefer.

But yes, I believe something along the lines of the VM-3P75CT is what's needed, but unfortunately something beyond that, or at least an evolution of it - that product in itself won't be the answer to the North American grid-feed problem, at least not yet.

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