No phase saldation when using multiplus as grid counter, System doesn’t not behave as expected

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gnagflow asked Mar 1, '23

No phase saldation when using multiplus as grid counter, System doesn’t not behave as expected

I use a 3 phase Multiplus2-5000VA system with 70kWh storage at a new customer site. The complete loads are on AC-OUT, so multiplus is as grid-counter configured in GX.

In Austria, Germany and most other European countries we use grid-counters that do „saldation“, that means, when L1=-1000, L2 =-1000W & L3 = +2000W in total you have 0W consumed at this moment and nothing to pay.

Unfortunately, the Multiplus 2 as grid-counter does not do saldation, like the EM24, so portal data is completely wrong, although on the dashboard the actual grid value is shown correctly.

If you look at the picture below, the customer doesn’t use any energy from grid between 17-1:00 in the morning - but the portal shows wrong data, because he consumed on one phase about 1600W and delivered from the battery about 800W at the other two phases - all the night, which is 0W consumed in Austria/Germany and the bigger rest of Europe.

So, please Victron can you repair this problem and open an option for multiplus as grid counter with phase saldation - the thing is, if you switch in ESS to control by the total sum of all three phases, also the dashboard values need to be considered.

Please Victron look, this problem is already discussed …

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/127465/vrm-portal-anzeige-netzbezug-einspeisung-stimmen-u.html

The thing that is additional irritating is, that on the dashboard the actual grid value is shown correctly - so everybody would expect everything is working fine ..

Multiplus-II grid 3 phase

1677648886990.png (882.1 KiB)

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Modifications Space

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Answer 1 · 2023-08-08T17:52:13Z

jan2001 answered · Aug 08, 2023 at 05:52 PM

@Victron please help us and provide an appropriate option to adjust the counting method

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Answer 2 · 2023-09-07T13:42:00Z

n-dee answered · Sep 07, 2023 at 01:42 PM

Yes please! Thats one of the most annoying "bugs" (at least for us :-))

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Answer 3 · 2023-09-07T20:21:03Z

mvader (Victron Energy) answered · Sep 07, 2023 at 08:21 PM

Hi all, I’m sorry but even though it might seem simple, fixing this is really quite an effort. Its not going to happen any time soon - if at all, I’m afraid.

Only solution I see is adding an energy meter that does allow for the calculation type you’re looking for.

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Timo Engelmann commented · Jan 29 at 12:58 PM

Really? It only takes a few lines of code to add the data. You have the required data in your database. You just need to add a new data element with the correct calculated value. And then add a radio button to toggle between the two different types in the overview display.

There are many users with this serial configuration without an energy meter. All these users now have to buy and install an additional energy meter just because Victron can't or won't solve this problem in the VRM software. Unnecessary hardware is not really environmentally friendly.

And then there are also users who do not have the space to install the additional energy meter. They are left looking completely stupid.

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andreasw commented · Apr 23 at 09:14 PM

Dear @mvader (Victron Energy)

I really appreciate your products! That's why I built and service several ESS and plan to build more.

But do you know, what's the most rewarding thing for the customer here? Seeing the big ZERO on the "From Grid"-meter/bars. Why do you deprive your customers of that feature/view/selling point?

As @Timo Engelmann correctly pointed out, this can't be a such a big effort to implement. Especially for a company that can do all those other control technology. And your products show that you already succeeded in implementing the vector registration method. E.g. with the VM-3P75CT or that the VRM already calculates the phase-saldation to display the instantaneous power of the grid. Why not integrate the instantaneous power for positive and negative values to get the desired figures?

For a company where the search "sustainable" on their website returns 2000+ matches, the answer surly can't be "buy hardware you don't need for something that can be fixed in software".

This is a waste of resources, money and space, which is often precious in sub or main distributions of a costumer.

So, please fix this "bug" and give the people their desired ZERO after investing quite some money (and work) into their nice blue Victron Systems.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Andreas from Germany

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luksfadda andreasw commented · yesterday

Dear Victron
I echo the sentiments of my peers, @Timo Engelmann and @AndreasW, regarding the need for a software solution to address the data representation in the VRM software. It seems counterintuitive for us, your loyal customers, to invest in additional hardware when a more sustainable and efficient solution could be achieved through software enhancements. The core of Victron's appeal has always been its cutting-edge technology and commitment to sustainability. By requiring the purchase of an extra energy meter, not only does this undermine the practical and environmental ethos of your brand, but it also places unnecessary additional costs for the customer. Many of us choose Victron for a streamlined, technically superior solution that aligns with our values of reducing environmental impact. Adding this feature would significantly enhance user satisfaction and demonstrate Victron's commitment to innovation and customer support.
For example I installed a total victron based setup (multiplus ii; smartsolar mppt rs, cerbo gx, ...) for my parents at pensioner age. Nearly every day i need to explain my father that he does not draw energy from the grid since his vrm tells him othervise.
It would also strengthen the selling point of your systems, as @AndreasW mentioned, by showcasing the real-time benefits of energy savings directly on the VRM interface. We hope you will reconsider your stance and prioritize this update, which seems minor in the realm of coding but major in its impact on your user base. Thank you for considering our feedback.

Best regards,

@luksfadda

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Answer 4 · 2023-12-05T12:45:05Z

terraveri answered · Dec 05, 2023 at 12:45 PM

Hallo Victron, please fix this issiu!

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