Easysolar2 3 phase system

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question

murphy asked May 29, '24

Easysolar2 3 phase system

Hi
First don't hit new user hard fecause of silly questions.:)
I am engineer(power electronics/motor controls hw/sw), so any generic terms are familiar.
I am in process of installing solar system for home. Setup:
2 phase 230V
EasySolar II
2x multiplus II.
MPPT 250/100-Tr VECan
ELERIX EX-S5 battterys
2 banks of solar panels with around 180V max. matched to max power of coresponding MPPT

What i done so far:
1) set up 3 phase system(after googling day for "zzz" pasword)
2) configured voltages fir inverter, charger MPPT

Whats confusing, multiple diferent config interfaces. VE direct -usb for inverters, BT for MPPT
internet for GT
What i am bit stuck:
1) how to set charger to keep say 20% of charge minimum in battery, is it only as simple as voltage/capacity from battery manual? Or should i set to disconnect AC_IN if battery voltage is above 20% voltage?

2) battery offers BMS com over CAN, but, MPPT uses CAN. its it ok to connect BMS to same bus? My automotive experience says CAN is CAN, standard protocol and everything should be able to talk it if they are electrically compadible. Want to use it for more acurate voltage measurment.

3)seen mention of modbus, is GX inside easysolar able to play master and read temperatures/voltages throu TCP modbus?

Multiplus-II EasySolar All-in-One

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Answer 1 · 2024-05-30T05:35:05Z

Duivert NL answered · May 30 at 05:35 AM

hi have you taken a look at the manuals? officialy 3 phase setup is not possible with a easysolar and 2 multiplus 2 see:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems

your battery is a non tested (non supported?) for victron see

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:start

its not possible with the easy solar GX to connect the battery with can to the same can of the mppt

so if both need to be connected to the GX you will need a cerbo or another mppt

steps of configuration of your system is:

follow al steps in the parallel and three phase systems manual

1) setup 3- phase with ve bus system configurator

2) Ve configure for easysolr/multiplusses

3) remot console in GX device to make last settings

is suggest you have contact with a local victron dealer to get support, you could damage your equipment easy if you dont understand the system

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murphy commented · May 30 at 07:14 AM

Tnx for answer.
Yes i have looked manuals
3 phase is supported, easysolar II contains Multiplus II, its an 3 in one. and acording to manual you must use multiplus II to create 3F system . Thats not and issue, it allready works.
Instalation is done according to manual.

BMS is not suported by victron but its compadible, battery manufacturer have instructions for it. but if its one or other(BMS/MPPT) it has no use for me.

I dont have local dealer, one i used to order equipment wont give support.
Damage is unlikelly, even if i do something real stupid like set wrong battery voltages BMS will trip.

Open question is still, how system understands when to use AC in and when to use power from PV. A.k. i wanna charge batterys to only 20% from grid. Have many grid outages and yould like to keep just some juice left always in batterys. I
I see 3 options todo it:
1) Multiplus II by setting max charge voltage to 20% (51.6V according to battery manual).
2) Multiplus II by setting disconnect AC input when battery level is above 20%
3) by GX and enabling GX to change charge current in multiplus II

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Duivert NL murphy commented · May 30 at 07:46 AM

i didnt say it wont work, just not supported :)

you can configure it as ESS and setup max discharge of 20%,

then pv and grid will support your loads and when needed battery,

and when grid is lost PV and the 20% battery will be used

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Answer 2 · 2024-05-30T07:10:22Z

JohnC answered · May 30 at 07:10 AM

Hi @murphy

These aren't silly questions. Silly people don't ask them..

For a broad summary of the protocols.. https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Technical-Information-Data-communication-with-Victron-Energy-products_EN.pdf

CAN might be CAN, but you may find a need to adjust the speed in the GX to be compatible. And the cable pinouts mightn't match either. Eg. Victron supply 'Type A' and 'Type B' cables for Pylontech alone. Your battery maker should give you guidance here. This is important if you want to use downstream logic to make decisions, and of course for reporting.

You may find your batteries will mimic another, like we hear reports of strange battery brands being recognized as Pylontech. So that may make it easier.

I'd expect the mppt in the Easy would also have a VE.Direct port, but I haven't checked. Use that to avoid the Can link the battery needs.

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Duivert NL commented · May 30 at 07:47 AM

he also has a mppt with VE can next to the easysolar build in mppt

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murphy Duivert NL commented · May 30 at 07:58 AM

yes that will make upto 5.8KW , separate one is 4kw.

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murphy commented · May 30 at 07:55 AM

yes it has VE direct, i could use it for MPPT( probably can exchange CAN model for VEdirect model).
CAN pinout i have , even how to make cable. Have 2 batterys but i assume i using one for monitoring is good ( both are coming to same point in busbar so thay should have cluse enugh charge level).
I can estimate charge level based on voltage but i am pretty sure that that reading from multiplus is not acurate.

I was asking for modbus bucause i could make hub for all batterys(i do PCB/software designe for living). Batterys do have RS485 that seems to be modbus. Reason for it is to get any errors messages from any of batterys, not just one. But thats later and not priority atm.

ATM urgent thing is, how system understands when to use AC in and when to use power from PV? A.k. i wanna charge batterys to only 20% from grid. Have many grid outages and yould like to keep just some juice left always in batterys. I

I see 3 options todo it:

1) Multiplus II by setting max charge voltage to 20% (51.6V according to battery manual).
MPPT still charges batterys full.

2) Multiplus II by setting disconnect AC input when battery level is above 20%

3) by GX and enabling GX to change charge current in multiplus II, DVCC maybe?

with 2 Problem i see if solar is not enough to maintain load it would start cliking on and off.

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Duivert NL murphy commented · May 30 at 08:13 AM

ATM urgent thing is, how system understands when to use AC in and when to use power from PV? A.k. i wanna charge batterys to only 20% from grid. Have many grid outages and yould like to keep just some juice left always in batterys.

like i said in my previous answer ESS can do that!

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JohnC ♦ murphy commented · May 30 at 09:10 AM

@murphy

There are a number of ways to do what you want with ACIN. Given the relay is onboard the Multi, it's fairly simple to code Assistants to switch it. The battery should provide a system SOC, but disable the onboard one.

A bit more difficult to switch on Lithium V, as it varies more with Load than SOC in all but the upper SOC range. But with Assistants you can programme in multiple factors, so you might be able to use it as well to serve extreme situations.

Look into DVCC too for system-wide data. And how the battery deals with it.

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Fideri JohnC ♦ commented · May 30 at 10:37 AM

@murphy

I would also look at Node Red. It may not be needed right now but you can pretty much do anything with it (including what you want).

F.

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murphy JohnC ♦ commented · May 30 at 01:42 PM

hmm ok i can get SOC from 1 battery, since they have equal lenght of cable and connected to single busbar their charge should be relativly equal.
But my question. CAN will pull SOC but CAN is connected to GX inside easysolar.
How will Multiplus knows SOC? Is it automatic system wide knoladge once GX knows SOC or i have todo some something for multiplus know this?

Also manual for Easysolar is verry confusing, It says external RJ45 CAN is only for BMS, but on frame of inverter is clear VE.CAN. Ether manual is wrong or markings on casing are wrong.

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JohnC ♦ murphy commented · May 30 at 02:02 PM

@murphy

If the GX is receiving SOC it will be passed across to the Multi. No settings needed.

VE.Can may need setting changes for your particular batteries..

The one selected here is for Pylontech. Your challenge is to make your unknown batts work.

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murphy JohnC ♦ commented · May 31 at 04:57 PM

how to add ESS to GX, all instructions are for some depricated software named VE-Configure3.
In VE connect there is no option for it at all.

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Duivert NL murphy commented · May 31 at 05:18 PM

Ve configure is not depricated… thats what you need to setup ESS

Download the config file from your vrm, open it in ve configure software and setup the system with ESS assitant

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murphy Duivert NL commented · May 31 at 06:40 PM

I got this thats why assumed its depricated,

Anyway after messing i managed to get some VE direct software running.
configured and start ESS and monitor, Now Multiplus knows thant it has battery attatched, atleast one of them knows about SOC. Not sure if i have to set assistant to run on every multiplus or just one is ok. GX has still no glue that there is BMS or battery connected.

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murphy Duivert NL commented · May 31 at 06:48 PM

ok i am stupid again if you let VE connect running on VE.Bus then GX is blind.
Now question si why its in passthrou. Battery is full, so its should be inverting.

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Duivert NL murphy commented · May 31 at 07:15 PM

You have to load the assistant to every multi, the ess assistant showed you that when you set it up in ve config

See this manual

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:how_to_add_and_configure_an_assistant

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murphy Duivert NL commented · May 31 at 10:50 PM

hmm ok i was in daught that if i need to add assistant to every phase or just one. Will test that tomorrow. I think thats only thing i have not tested yet.

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murphy Duivert NL commented · May 31 at 11:18 PM

Really tnx mate for this note to load assistan to all inverters, That was final issue.
Now everything seems golden. :) Happy guy here:)

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murphy murphy commented · May 31 at 07:20 PM

Ok i made some changes, energy meter was external, i have none.

But i have some issues as seen on pricture, batterys are discharging but some power is pulled from grid. I want all power from batterys untill there is charge above minimum limit i set.
Also for a moment i saw indication of grid fedback, thats NOT PERMITED. I am not alowed to feed back to grid, line NULL. That was whole point of batterys, grid feedback would requie me to signe contract for 50 000 eur.(local energy companys are not really fan of micro producers).

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murphy murphy commented · May 31 at 07:24 PM

This ESS is BS, WTF its feeding back to gird on 1 phase. Thats BS.

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murphy murphy commented · May 31 at 09:45 PM

NVM i was stupid again, or atleast i think so.
You have to set grid region for ever Multiplus separate.
Also there is option to controll every phase separate so no feedback on any of phases.

But still i have issue where only 700W is pulled from battery.
I can put any load it just wont pull more than 700W.

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murphy murphy commented · May 31 at 10:25 PM

After some reading and testing i still have issue.
If i set multiphase regulation to individual phase. Then only max 700W is pulled from battery. Regardless of load.
If i set Total of all phases, then some pahses are feeding into grid.

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Answer 3 · 2024-05-31T23:21:30Z

murphy answered · May 31 at 11:21 PM

Topic closed, Big big tnx for everyone helping.

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