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max-payne asked

Single Multiplus-II 3 phase grid converter

Buying 3 Multis and having them generate a 3 phase grid is possible but expensive and the idle consumption is very high. So the other route is having a single 5000VA Multiplus-II and generate a 3 phase failover grid from it.

Question:
Is there a phase converter that can be recommended that supports around 5000VA total power? Self consumption should also be low and it should be able to handle unbalanced loads between the phases. Its for a ESS system and the grid converter is just backup.

I found this device from Siemens: https://www.automation24.at/frequenzumrichter-siemens-sinamics-v20-6sl3210-5be25-5cv0
Here is the manual for it: https://media.automation24.com/manual/de/103596507_v20_operating_instructions_complete_de-DE_de-DE.pdf

Does not seem to complicated. Am I missing something?

Multiplus-II3 phasemulti phase
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max-payne avatar image max-payne commented ·

Also found a cheap digital phase shifter. I dont know if these support highly unbalanced loads.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/283870079679

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max-payne answered ·

Answer:
I thought about it and the point for 3 phases is mute. It is a household application when no true 3 phase is needed at all. I checked and the only 3 phase application in the house (electric stove) does not care if there is no phase difference.

I could just use a single transfer switch and have all 3 phases run from the 5000VA AC OUT1 of the Multi in case of a possible grid brownout in my country. Danke Merkel

Case closed.

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Michelle Konzack answered ·

The Sinamics V20 can not make 3-Phase out of 230V. If you have an ACin of 230V you get 230V out, but can regulate the frqueny to regulate the speef od 230V AC motors.

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max-payne avatar image max-payne commented ·
I hope you know that 400v is 3 phases of 230V right? So 230V in and 3x 230V out is exactly what a household needs.

The only issue is that most of these things are for motors and I dont know if its okay to use the output for the household items.

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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack max-payne commented ·
Of course i know it, beibg Electromechanic since 1983.


But it is hard to make 400V-3P out of a singel 230V line


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Michelle Konzack answered ·

Ok, there are some from ABB, but they are realy expensive and hard to get.


The cheaper solution are 2 additional MultiPlus-II.

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max-payne avatar image max-payne commented ·
Link to ABB please
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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack max-payne commented ·
I have not the time to search the ABB database with several million products and variations.


You have to do the homework yourself.


I know only, that in an enterprise where I was working as electromecanic we have installed one at a customer, because it was cheaper then pulling a new AXPK 4G25 cable from the transformer to the house. However, it was more expensive as a MultiPlus-II 24/5000 with much lesser power.


However, I do not know in Europe a (recent) singel stabdard 4-plate cooking stove (induction, ceran, altervative) which require more then 2 phases of 230V 25A because the 3rd phasevis the baking oven.


Every Cookingstove+Bakingoven can run from 230V and a singel phase, assuming that you have enough power behind, because for the combination running parallel you would need three MultiPlus 5000 in parallel


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Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

First link is error 404.

This devices are soft starter/controller for 3-phase motors not to supply a 3-phase house from a single phase.

Do you have an off-grid system or is it grid connected?
Do you have loads that need a 3-phase grid?

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max-payne avatar image max-payne commented ·
I answered below. No 3 phase is needed when we supply L1 L2 and L3 from AC OUT1 of the Multi. Its not correct but its only in case of blackout for a few hours where conventiently the household could continue as usual.
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Michelle Konzack avatar image
Michelle Konzack answered ·

I would simply put in one phase where you have the lights plus one dedicated socket on the same phase on a MultiPlus 3000 inverter with a 5-10kWh battery behind and configure it as UPS.


Or connect a MPPT to the battery and configure your system as ESS.


Maybe an EasySolar could be the right solution for you, which reduce in the same time also you electricity will while selfconsumption

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