Cyrix CT always hot and draining both batteries

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question

Hipolito Gonzalez asked Nov 13, '20

Cyrix CT always hot and draining both batteries

Hello. I have a very simple install in my 4x4 (Mercedes ML 320). I have a normal acid extra battery in the back of my car, only for few equipments. I realize in the last days, I am not moving the car so much, the voltage indicator for the "service" battery was in 11.9 (with the tester, 12 volts, very few, even after driving for about 2 hours in one week ago), and the starter battery was also similar (12.1 volts). The batteries are "separated" well, not moving power between one and the other, just the Cyrix CT is always "warm". Even after a night, if I touch the Cyrix, is a little warm. I think is always using "a lot" of power. I know, I can solve it using a switch and disconnecting the positives, but is really the Cyrix using "a lot of power" in stand by and I need to disconnect it ?

Here a picture and a explain....

Pin 87 = To service/second battery (one meter away with a fuse)

Pin 30 = To main car power supply, taking the power from the cigarette lighter from the back of my car.

Pin 86 = To a common negative.

Today I am going to make more test, I will put and amp tester between the Cyrix and the "main battery" and the same with th service and I will take measurements about how much amps and running..

Thank you

Cyrix Battery Combiner

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Answer 1 · 2020-11-13T10:31:53Z

Hipolito Gonzalez answered · Nov 13, 2020 at 10:31 AM

Hello again. Today I went to my garage and the battery 2 (service) was in 12.1 and battery 1 in 12.2, after yesterday only driving for about 45 minutes. Without any load in the service and only the normal load in main battery the power was going doing again. The Cyrix was warm (like "always" or like "working") and I use my tester and put between the fuse (coming from the service battery) to the Cyrix. With everything "off" I got the following "usage"

I think is a lot of power usage.

0.1 amp/hour, make 2.4 amp/24 hours draining from more or less each battery.

In 10 days without running my car (is my secondary car, travel car, adventure car) (is normal to be stopped for 10 days) the 1/2 of my service battery (40 aH) is gone, and the main battery is 90 aH, it could be a problem.

I don't know why is using so much power the Cyrix....

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Answer 2 · 2020-11-13T13:34:14Z

bathnm answered · Nov 13, 2020 at 01:34 PM

I have seen a similar parasitic draw on my Cyrix-CT 120A, however this was when the main battery was being held at float and looking for the devices drawing current. When I disconnected the negative, I had roughly a .1A reduction in load. I am surprised however that yours has not disconnected the batteries, If the voltage drops to between 12.8v and 12.4v for 3 minuets it should disconnect.

At the moment when I am not onboard the boat I actually disconnect the negative and leave the two batteries isolated. As they are both fully charged it is not an issue. I then reconnect the negative while I am onboard.

What I find interesting is that the data sheet says the current consumption when open in <4mA and when closed 220mA.

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Answer 3 · 2020-11-13T18:49:30Z

Hipolito Gonzalez answered · Nov 13, 2020 at 06:49 PM

Thank you @Bathnm .

But my Cyrix is disconnecting BOTH batteries, if I do a volt measure in each "end point" I have different voltages (it means they aren't connected). For example, before turning on today the car, I had 12.1 and 12.2 but "power" was going to the ciryx and it was "hot" (I think 40 C degress). If I turn on the car, I can ear the CLICK (engaging) and the voltage goes up to 13.6 more or less

It is working at moments I turn on the car, the only "problem" I think the the power of the "electronic" is "so much" and in 10 days could "kill" both batteries.

I am going to buy another and test, maybe mine is bad (6 months installed, really not yet used for the "quarantine" in Spain) Just installed in the car, but I didn't do really a long trip and use all the night the battery with the fridge, lights, inverter, tv etc etc.....

But I am checking everything always!

Thank you

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Answer 4 · 2022-08-11T14:52:37Z

volknkn answered · Aug 11, 2022 at 02:52 PM

Hello everyone, I faced with same issue on today. I haven’t use my car for 24 hours and my both batteries are sapareted by kill switch. But when I touch my Cyrix-Ct, it was really warm. What should be happened?

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Answer 5 · 2023-07-29T15:42:51Z

salaatti answered · Jul 29, 2023 at 03:42 PM

Same problem here. Installed on a boat.

1x 97Ah AGM start battery

1x 74Ah Lead acid house battery

Installed as per instructions. The boat is 3 years old so could be referred as new and all connectors and cables done in professional manner.

Boat was not used for 4 weeks, mains disconnected. Only bilge pump and Webasto heater connected directly to batteries. Both batteries dead with 6,x volts.

Firstly disconnected Webasto and bilge pump but still 0.1 amp draw. Finally I was able to suspect the Cyrix ct. The unit was a little warm also.

Decided to buy a new unit and now monitoring situation. The old unit was less than 3 years old so if this is the life expectancy of the Cyrix ct and/or both batteries (about 400€ per round = one AGM, one Lead Acid and one Cyrix ct)... it is an expensive hobby.

I have seen two other strings / topics on this matter on this forum but there was no solution on the matter nor comment from Victron.

@Hipolito Gonzalez How was this resolved or any suggestions by others?

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) Could you please comment on this?

Has there been defective units or what seems to be the problem?

Please do not ask me to contact the local supplier because the problem is the high amperage draw and they cannot do anything about it. The manual states less than 4mA but my unit was taking 100mA which is far from acceptable.

7

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Hipolito Gonzalez commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 04:25 PM

Hello my freiend @salaatti

I bought a new one and problem solved.

Also you have maybe another problem, you are mixing two different king of batteries. They have different voltage charge!

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salaatti Hipolito Gonzalez commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 06:29 PM

Thank You @Hipolito Gonzalez, highly appreciate your quick reply!

Ok that’s good to know that the issue was a defect product and this might be a solution also in my case. I’ll report back after a few days whether the batteries keep charge or not.

I don’t see any problem in having different capacity batteries since both are the same voltage, 12 volt system in parallel. 95% of boats with 2-battery systems have different capacities in start and house banks and the only difference in my system is that the start battery is a bigger AGM due to cold climate and Mercury outboard high demand on start. The house battery is only for nav equipment and other electronics used always underway thus always charged by the outboard alternator when under load.

If @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) could share some input on this matter if the Cyrix ct is not capable in balancing between two different sizes of power banks and/or use mixed (AGM+LA) parallel installation - that should be stated with bold and block letters in the product description so that consumers can avoid buying products that are not suitable for certain systems (most pleasure boats).

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Hipolito Gonzalez salaatti commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 06:32 PM

My friend, the problem is not the capacity, I have also different capacities, is the different TYPES.... two different types of batteries means TWO different charge voltages. When you mix different types, you must not use RELAY, you need a DC-DC converter, for changing the voltage to the "secondary" battery. There are a lot of documentation about it. Both batteries are 12 volts (main voltage) but the stand by/charging and float voltage are different...

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salaatti Hipolito Gonzalez commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 07:58 PM

Dear @Hipolito Gonzalez are you saying that by using AGM and LA batteries in parallel in 12 volt boat electronics it is ok and/or expected for the Cyrix to drain both batteries down to 6.something volts in 4 weeks? Basically making slowly the 12V parallel system into a 2x6V series system due to battery chemistry difference?

Maybe I represent a different school of thought on this one but focusing on the issue at hand, please:

After you installed a new Cyrix ct - the 0.1-0.09 amp discharge/load was gone and the Cyrix was not "in action"/ warm anymore?

As you said you bought a new one and the problem was gone? Without any specific details on your setup or electrical system in general I just want to make sure that you were able to pinpoint the Cyrix being the problem and no other alterations were done?

Please send a link with a reputable source on this AGM/LA case and maybe I will educate myself on that matter later.

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Hipolito Gonzalez salaatti commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 08:17 PM

Hello again my super friend.

First, yes, I have lead-acid battery in "parallel" with the CT..... for avoiding the issue we are talking

Second, having two different kind of batteries is the not the problem that you have and I had, is a problem with the relay, that keeps connected and excuse me for mixing subject. First, I think your problem is the relay, because I had the same, and the relay keep connected and draining the batteries.

Third, the other problem you will have in the short future is the damage of the AGM battery because it needs different voltage charge and sleep voltage.

Here, some FAQs.... but is easy to find, NOT MIX CHARGING DIFFERENT TYPE of BATTERIES. because they have different stages/volts etc etc

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/can-agm-and-lead-acid-be-mixed.2080/

https://canyoumix.com/can-you-mix-agm-and-lead-acid-batteries/

and from the last link, you can read the following:

Yes, you can mix AGM and lead acid batteries, but it’s not recommended. AGM batteries are designed to work with a charging system that provides a steady flow of current, while lead acid batteries are better suited for a charging system that provides a pulsed current. If you mix the two types of batteries, the AGM battery will likely discharge more quickly than the lead acid battery.

And I add. the AGM will be dead soon.....

For that, the battery charges has different charging modes....

And the last, if you have telegram, you are free to write me, my nickname is: @hgonzale

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salaatti Hipolito Gonzalez commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 10:19 PM

Hello. Thanks for clearing the subject at hand.

Yes I understand that there are general rules for not combining the two different types of batteries.

However, solar installations for instance are far from my usage. Before the Cyrix started acting up the AGM was fine for 3 years and I am quite sure that without the Cyrix case there would have been easily another 3 years of use. When the batteries are under load they are constantly charged at about 14.5 volts and around 60 amps. In my boat there is no common discharge on fridge, television or any other liveaboard boat type consumables without constant charging. The LA house battery was factory fitted and its sole purpose is to keep consumables separate from start battery and basically keep them powered during engine startup for instance and of course as a backup power bank. In addition the maximum draw would consist of Webasto, Radar, Nav lights, GPS+Plotter, Autopilot and occasionally search light and VHF with a total of absolute maximum of around 10 to 15 amps, resulting still in about 40 amps of surplus... so practically no common discharge ever.

Based on engine hours so far the boat batteries have been discharging and charging simultaneously about 180 hours during the last 3 years. In solar panel installation that means about one week of charge with simultaneously discharge aka using power only when the sun is shining so we can round that to two weeks just to be fair since we are living on a rolling rock ball in space... and during that time you would be allowed to use only about 20-30% of load.

You are correct, but things need to be put in perspective - always. If you can destroy an AGM battery in solar installation within 2 weeks due to different charging patterns - let me know what brand to avoid ;)

Thank You @Hipolito Gonzalez for your input and quick replies. It was a pleasure. Enjoy the rest of the Summer!

Peace.

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Hipolito Gonzalez salaatti commented · Jul 29, 2023 at 11:25 PM

Super. WE are in the same side

And yes, I think your relay is "bad" now, just replace it. Mine was bad almost from the beginning, I replaced it and not problem anymore

I have installed it in my overland car 4x4, and is for the same that you, fridge, heater (china heater VEVOR), lights, water pump and keeps it separately from the car battery. I connected the CT from a power plug in the trunk of my car, and the maximum rate charge is about 4/5 amps + usage when are mixed.

Replace it, is not expensive tool. I think the electronic inside is not the best, but it works.

In my next long overland trips (*sthan countries, Iceland) I will have with me a replace relay.

Thank you for the conversation, have a nice summer also.

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Answer 6 · 2023-08-02T11:31:15Z

salaatti answered · Aug 02, 2023 at 11:31 AM

Confirmed. 3-year-old Cyrix Ct was the cause of battery drain.

Replaced with new unit and problem solved.

Too bad that Victron is unable to comment on this issue. Maybe they think this concerns only a limited number of devices but to me it seems that these problems are rather common and international. 80% of customers decide to stay quiet and not express their concerns on discussion forums so this is just the tip of the ice berg.

I certainly hope that I am not forced to replace my batteries every 3rd year.

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Answer 7 · 2023-08-21T07:33:45Z

salaatti answered · Aug 21, 2023 at 07:33 AM

Replaced the unit and after two weeks decided to check the boat > Voltage 11,80 on both batteries.

So Cyrix-CT is basically designed to drain batteries.

No comment from Victron itself.

Decided to disconnect the unit. Will have to check on other manufacturers.

What a useless product.

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