question

Jon S avatar image

Cyrix Li ct between Balmar 220A alternators and 614 external regulator.

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


Hi Daniel,

Per your comment on my previous thread I am writing about 2 issues I am having. They are different so I will put them in 2 posts.


I have wired in a Cyrix Li-Ct between my house and start battery per this diagram:

If I attach the voltage sense to the Lithium batteries the voltage rises to 18v. If I attach the voltage sense to the start battery voltage is correct but I only see about 108 amps coming out of the alternator.


Any ideas?


Jon



Cyrix Battery Combiner
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3 Answers
Adventurousboat avatar image

Hi Jon,

I am new to the forum... are you using any fuses in the wiring from battery to battery?
thanks

Art

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Hi Art,

The alternator side is fused per the drawing. That drawing does not cover the detailed house diagram. All house batteries are fused to the positive bus bar. The positive bus bar is fused to the electrical panels.

Jon



gbarnaud avatar image

Hi @Jon S, @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

I'm very interested in this topic as a customer is currently planning about the same configuration.

How many Ah lithium batteries are we talking about ?

By the way we decided to dedicate all power of the alternators to the house battery and charge the engine batt through a DC-DC 12V/30A charger.

We will stop the alternator charging by interrupting the ignition of the Balmar external regulator directly from the Charge Disconnect

I'm afraid the mix between the relatively high voltage of the fully charged engine batt and the not so low voltage of the Lithium batt at 70% explain why the alternator are not charging more. Even if 108A is not ridiculous, be honnest.


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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image

Hi @Jon S

I don't follow your text

What voltage sense? of what device?

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@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


Sorry about that, it was horribly worded.


There is a Balmar 614 external regulator connected to the Balmar 220 amp alternators. I was referring to the voltage sense between the 614 and either the start battery or the lithium.

When connecting the voltage sense wire from the Balmar 614 direct to the start battery the alternator doesnt rise above 108 amps. When the 614 voltage sense is connected to the lithium's voltage climes to 18v. I shut it down fast so dont know what amps it is pushing.


Does this help?


Thanks,

Jon

@Jon S

of course the alternator voltage sense has to be connected to the battery it is always connected to, if it senses the lithium battery while it is not connected to it, it will try to increase the voltage.


I -really- advice you to hire a capable installer for your system.

Jon S avatar image Jon S Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

As I stated before, I cannot find a reliable certified Victron engineer in St. Martin. I hired one to do the install and paid a shit ton of money for it. I hired another to review and his recommendations were worse. So now what do I do if you will not help me? I am technical and I am working with an electrician who was a Electrical Engineer.

Maybe its still not clear what was tested. Of course the voltage sense MUST be connected. It was never tested un-connected.

Test 1 - configured per the Cyrix Li-Ct diagram in previous post.

  • Connect voltage sense from the 614 to the start battery (which is AGM).
  • Connect amp meter to ground cable coming off alt.
  • Connect volt meter to start battery
  • Start engine
  • Review readings: 108 amps Volts 14.2
  • Stop engine.


Test 2 - This was recommended by a Victron certified installer (who left it like this and melted my start battery. I like my chances on my own).

  • some config as the Cyrix Li- ct diagram
  • Connect voltage sense from the 614 to Victron Lithiums.
  • Connect amp meter to ground cable coming off alt.
  • Connect volt meter to start battery
  • Start engine
  • Review readings: Volts 18 amps - didnt look, shut down due to 18V
  • Stop engine.

Hi @Jon S

Sorry to hear about the local situation (maybe I should move to a warmer climate?)

I don't mind helping, but I'm hesitant if I sens that basic logic is not understood. I'll trust your electrician will.


on the sense wire:

Test 1 - configured per the Cyrix Li-Ct diagram in previous post.

  • Connect voltage sense from the 614 to the start
  • Review readings: 108 amps Volts 14.2

This is how it should be: 14.2 Volts is the max you want to feed your Lithium Batteries. The alternator provides the voltage it should do, the current will only rise when there is more demand (a more empty battery or using power (loads))


Test 2 - This was recommended by a Victron certified installer (who left it like this and melted my start battery. I like my chances on my own).

  • Connect voltage sense from the 614 to Victron Lithiums. volt meter on start battery
  • Review readings: Volts 18 amps - didnt look, shut down due to 18V
  • Stop engine.

the relay was probably open for whatever reason (maybe batteries were not balanced yet and disconnected due to a cell overvoltage), or the relay just didn't close yet.

As a result the alternator sees a lower voltage than it tries to reach, and puts out more power to reach the set voltage.

(this answer I gave in the previous reaction also, but with less words)

Jon S avatar image Jon S Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


In both tests the lithium batteries were at the same state. Showing ~70% and 13.3v on the GCCX.

There was no over voltage and all Lithium cells are within .01 or .02 volts of each other, so no imbalance.


I did not check to see if the Cyrix had opened or not because I freaked a bit seeing 18v. Are you saying that it is possible that the balmar 614 voltage sense wire connected to the lithiums saw 13.3 but the alternator sensed only the start battery because the Cyrix had not opened (I dont recall start battery voltage at the time. I can test this again and make sure to collect this data point) the differences in voltage readings might cause this?

Hi @Jon S

it doesn't matter.

do -not- connect alternator sense to a point that can be disconnected from the alternator output.

you've seen the result (18V on starter battery)

I'm very sorry for you your previous installer connected it like this, but I can only tell what you should do now.

Please have your electrician read this topic and when he has questions, ask them here.


Hi @Jon S, @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


Sorry I'm new and answered before at the wrong place

I'm very interested in this topic as a customer is currently planning about the same configuration.

How many Ah lithium batteries are we talking about ?

By the way we decided to dedicate all power of the alternators to the house battery and charge the engine batt through a DC-DC 12V/30A charger.

We will stop the alternator charging by interrupting the ignition of the Balmar external regulator directly from the Charge Disconnect

I'm afraid the mix between the relatively high voltage of the fully charged engine batt and the not so low voltage of the Lithium batt at 70% explain why the alternator are not charging more. Even if 108A is not ridiculous, be honnest.

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