Multiplus II (48V 5000) ESS, noisy power consumption, HDO grid line interference?

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hsaman asked Mar 12, '20

Multiplus II (48V 5000) ESS, noisy power consumption, HDO grid line interference?

Hi there,
I can see some noisy, unstable 1 minutes burst power changes on input phase to Multiplus II when inverter is running, reported by independent ET340.I was in contact with my dealer and it seems to be becouse of HDO interference.Is there a way to fix this kind of behaviour (see below)? ESS mode, grid set point 200W.

Picture 1 - with visible two, around 1 minute noise bursts

Yello is noise behavior measured by independant ET340 on input L1 phase to Multiplus.

Pink is power at Multiplus out1, quite stable consumtion.

Blue is power from battery

Picture 2, zoom out show other noisy timeframes.

Multiplus-II ESS

multii-1.jpg (66.3 KiB)

multii-2.jpg (68.4 KiB)

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hsaman commented · Apr 14, 2020 at 07:16 PM

Hi there,

Please let me add some today capture of consumption on phase one.

Just before 8.00AM inverter start run and regulate nicely around 100W setpoint,

but at around 3PM the regulation starts to be not so nice and precise (SOC>50%)

It is also visible on independent measurement from other ET340

I have notice this a few times before. Some times it help to reboot RaspberryPi Venus OS,

but not always. I will/need try to find out what can I do to reset something to get nice regulation.

The ugly one, that is there the most of time, has more spikes of feed energy into grid..

Detail:

Any comments about such behavior?

Thank you, Best Regards,

Hynek

Add more, seems it may be related to multiplus VE bus reporting sometimes jumping to passthrough mode. See below:

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vrm01.jpg (95.1 KiB)

vrm02.jpg (57.9 KiB)

vrm03.jpg (94.3 KiB)

vrm04.jpg (97.3 KiB)

jirkaholy answered · Jul 23, 2020 at 09:54 AM

Today new release of ESS assistant:

017A

(home)

Release date: July 22, 2020

· Solves instability which occurred due to the ripple control mechanism exploited by the grid operator. (Czech republic)

Looks working well. :

Opposite to previous:

Fluctuation was connected to all frequency changes.

1595496411543.png (570.2 KiB)

1595496600230.png (583.2 KiB)

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2020-03-16T22:43:32Z

Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Mar 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM

Hi @hsaman

What is 'HDO'

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ondra commented · Mar 17, 2020 at 08:18 PM

Hello everyone

HDO = Ripple control, described here:

https://www.egc-cb.cz/en/products-for-power-industry/ripple-control.html

The ČEZ electricity distributor uses frequencies 188.3 Hz and 216.6Hz.

Me and a few friends live on the ČEZ distribution area and we all have the same problems with the ESS mode inverter function

But the problem is still not solved, for example here:

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/9810/easysolar-ess-randomly-switches-charging-dischargi.html?childToView=15876#answer-15876

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/1976/ess-short-discharge-pulses-in-float.html?childToView=9524#comment-9524

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/16017/easysolar-problem-in-ess-mode.html

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/39166/grid-remote-control-problem-with-mulitplus-and-ess.html

Unfortunately no result.

There is no problem with HDO (ripple control) in HUB 4 mode. HUB 4 has slower control and therefore the inverter / power does not oscillate when a HDO signal is sent.

If it is not possible to simulate the frequency in the lab, the elegant solution would be to add to the ESS mode the choice of regulation speed, if the ESS mode slowed down, then probably would not oscillate.

The user could then choose between fast regulation (minimization of undesirable energy supply) or slower regulation and functional ESS mode.

Consider slowing down the ESS mode regulation, perhaps it would help, otherwise ESS mode is unusable in some countries witch ripple control.

Thanks Ondra

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ondra commented · May 04, 2020 at 07:55 PM

Hi Daniël Boekel

Still no solution? Now I put into operation a new PV system, 3x MPII, Cerbo GX, Lion CAN BUS BMZ X, ET340, the latest FW and unfortunately ESS mode still can not be used. Fortunately, the good old HUB4 is stable.

Please info when we can expect a stable version of ESS mode. I suggested something here, but without a reaction. Thanks Ondra

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jirkaholy ondra commented · Jul 20, 2020 at 06:21 PM

Hi Daniël Boekel

Any answer concerning solution for Czech system? Thanks

Hi Ondra

Can this system run HUB4 without ET340? Thanks

Jirka

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Answer 2 · 2020-03-16T23:21:30Z

hsaman answered · Mar 16, 2020 at 11:21 PM

In Czech language: HDO is Hromadne Dalkove Ovladaní - translated as Common Remote Control. It is signal on power lines to control elektricity Tarifs and probably other stuff.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Mar 16, 2020 at 11:42 PM

Ah the 216.7 Hz one?
We're still trying to replicate it in the lab, but unsuccessfully up to now..

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hsaman Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Mar 17, 2020 at 09:14 PM

For a month before I used Ess with ET340 in the loop and responce was slow, typ around 12 second undershot below gridsetpoint when load changed. So I remove ET340, responce is faster probably under speed of data capture 2second, but noisy interference appears as showed on above graphs. I am looking forward for solution. Thank you for your support. Best Regard,Hynek.

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vojtech-kurka Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · 5 days ago

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

I made a screen recording of VRM. All Multiplus units are up to date, firmware v510:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kYQ22JyojGM3xKkA9

The instability got a lot worse after an upgrade from v4xx. But downgrading to 4xx firmware forever is not something I would call a solution.

If you need a direct contact of the owner of this particular installation, let me know.

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