question

bm97ppc avatar image
bm97ppc asked

Stop charging and export all Solar.

OK, I have racked my brain and I can't think of a way to do this, I'm hoping I have missed something?

So there is an MPII 10K, MPPT, PV inverter (AC Out 1), and a Zappi EV charger.

The Zappi has a CT on the grid and will soak up any export (up to 7.2 kW) assuming a car is connected.

So the customer wants to stop / pause battery charging and export all solar to the Grid which the Zappi will then charge the car with. I thought simple enough, but seemingly not.

  • First I tried "Inverter only" - That stops all Export.
  • Second I set the DVCC Charge Current to 0 - This partially worked, all the PV Solar was exported but the MPPT Solar continued to charge the battery.

Is there a way to also export the MPPT Solar? It behaves as desired when the battery SOC is 100%.




Multiplus-IIMPPT SmartSolar
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4 Answers
matt1309 avatar image
matt1309 answered ·

I see what you mean. You almost want to spoof absorption/float mode without being at 100% SoC (VIctron EV charger might be a cleaner way to go but pricey)


You've set DVCC charge limit to 0, is DC coupled PV feed in excess also enabled in ESS also? If it is and it's not working then see hacky solution below if not enabling it might solve it:



It's a bit of a hacky way around it but maybe using node red and grid set point?

Needs to be a dynamic calculations so node red might be ideal This is far from a clean solution though but best i can think of. (Personally wouldnt set this up in a customers house unless they were heavily involved and understood what was happening/could disable it if they needed to)

I've also assumed no grid export limt:


When customer enables this "mode" (unsure how you're doing that but maybe a shelly switch or some other http api switch)

When switch is on node red will do the below flows:

Get the amount of power it can export by the below calc:

Total power output of all solar MPPTs + AC coupled PV if exists - AC Loads - a small buffer


Small buffer is to cover losses of converting PV power output to AC and any others in the system (this will be trial and error to determine the number)


Then whatever that number is you use node red to set the grid set point equals to the negative of that number.


For example: Node red would get the below values and do the below if statement:

PV incoming 10,000w

AC Load 500w

if PV - AC loads > 0 then

set grid set point -9500w (less the fixed buffer amount)

else

set grid set point 0w


Node red will constantly loop this flow and adjust the grid setpoint. Then if sun goes down AC loads > PV coming in grid set point will be 0 and system will behave normaly. However the customer would need to remember (or schedule via shelly smart switch) to turn this feature off as it will essentially prevent batteries from charging by exporting it all instead (the main limitation without communication between victron


I'm unfamiliar with zappy but if there is an API you could get node red to also check if it's taking power in ie cars connected and not full. If it's fully then you could have node red not run the above flow as you'd be pointlessly exporting grid power if cars already full/not there.


Way more automations could be added but again experimental maybe not ideal for a customer who's not tech savy/just wants a flawless system.







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seriusrod avatar image seriusrod commented ·

I'm using the solution you describe above for some days in an installation.

There are two things that concerns me so much:

1. PV Production is a dynamic on demand value. The system modulates production based on demand. That means that if you read 1500w of solar power, and you set the setpoint to this, it may be that there's more sun power available, but the system doesn't use it as it is not required. And you stay at 1500w.
That happens, for example, when the battery is near full.
What I've done is an algorithm that looks for consumption and production and tries to scrape some more by setting the setpoint a bit above production. But this is not optimal.

2. Implications of being changing a setting frequently, in this case based on solar production. I'm concerned that saving settings changes to eeprom could make it fail prematurely.

I would prefer a "manufacturer" solution, like a check in grid feedin that allows to export all the DC production, or that DVCC current limit really worked when DC feedin is enabled.

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matt1309 avatar image matt1309 seriusrod commented ·
Hi @seriusrod


Glad it's somewhat working, but yeh that's going to be a limitation.


To be honest if you're in absorption phase you're near enough full anyway, a reduced amount will be hitting the battery anyway.


Personally if algorithm isn't too effective or causing you headaches i would not bother with using the flow/work around i described above if in absorption phase (I would add an if at start of flow saying (not in absorption).


You'll have some power going into battery but I imagine it'll tail off quickly once you're in absorption phase anyway and then the remaining power by default will be all exported.

So I would disable the flow if in absorption and let the system just automatically export the maximum, as it will do this by default. And just accept that I'll lose out on a small amount in the event I'm in absorption which shouldn't be too often/likely)


The only time you'll need the above work around then is if you want to export more during non absorption phase.


If your algorithm is efficient then I'd stick with that that as it'll stop the battery charging even in absorption phase. Howevr if it's not efficient or a pain to perfect then the easier solution is to accept you're going lose out on some power (going into the battery) when you hit absorption but it will be reduced and a short period of time before it's all being exported and you're not reliant on a new algorithm you've made.



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bm97ppc avatar image
bm97ppc answered ·

Thanks that might be an option, slightly concerned about the reaction time, it always seems to take a few seconds to react to a setpoint. This might be a problem if solar production is up and down.

However, I might have just worked out a way with the new option (V3.0) in ESS Scheduled charging.

Set a Schedule Charge for all day with a low target SOC and the new "Self-consumption above limit" set to PV. This prevents Charging and then set a high -ve setpoint and this seems to send all solar to grid. I've yet to test it fully for any quirks or side effects but my initial tests it seems to do the job.

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seriusrod avatar image seriusrod commented ·

I'm on the same boat, but what is requested is to export all DC PV during some hours.

I've tried your solution, but I don't know why It doesn't work in this system. Seems the same as you described, PV Inverter at ac-out and a Solar charger. But it wants to charge the batteries first.
¿Is there any other parameter you changed for it to work?

20230623-084056.jpg

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seriusrod avatar image seriusrod commented ·

"then set a high -ve setpoint"

What do you mean with this? Is an EV charger setting?
If you meant high fixed negative grid setpoint I'm afraid that this would make the system export from battery when there's not enough solar production.

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joolster avatar image joolster commented ·
Hi, could you confirm / paste picture of your high negative setpoint parameter please? want to try this but want to ensure using the right field, thanks
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hominidae avatar image
hominidae answered ·

I have another charging solution for my EVs, so I don't know what the Zäppi can actually do.

The Use-Case you describe is to use PV access power for charging, only.

...and, when doing so, you probably/most likely don't want to have the stationary/house battery discharging while the EV is charged from PV.

The best solution would be

  • to set the allowed grid-setpoint to the value of the available PV access power (positive value)
  • instruct the EV Charger to only use that amount of power, hence the resulting grid-power will be 0, when charging the EV.
    Typically an EV charger will control this via the allowed current offered to the EV over the Type2/Mode3 CP connection - so depending on the number of phases the EV will charge from, you will need to calculate that allowed current from the access PV power available .. note that charging will only starts from 6A current (per phase), as per technical standard.
  • Best would be, if the charger will monitor the power that is going into the EV, so you can dynamically adjust, when the car battery is reaching full state or when the car BMS performs a balancing of its battery during charge.
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sharpener avatar image
sharpener answered ·

Other ways of doing this are documented on myenergi zappi web pages and fora e.g. this and this. Basically you need to locate the CT for the zappi where it thinks it is measuring the export, whereas the the Victron setup needs to detect the zappi as a load not an export.

Edited to fix broken link and add:

Normally in eco+ mode the zappi will then use only power that would otherwise be exported.

However if you set the zappi to fast mode it will ignore its export measurement and draw the current it wants and the Victron will see this load and prioritise this over charging the battery.

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