question

amrit avatar image
amrit asked

Which Off-grid inverter starts at low input and has general low consumption?

Hello everyone,


We are building a small house in Holland and going completely off grid. As we talk to other people that live off grid it becomes clear that the challenge is surviving the winter. We are currently looking at a victron inverter with 2 separate MPPT's (to be able to split the 6 solar panels in 2 groups) and two batteries with 4kwh storage. Since we will have a small house we won't be able to install more than 6 solar panels. We are aware we will have to adjust our life to what we will be able to collect and store. That makes it even more crucial to have a well working system that uses as little as possible energy to convert from DC to AC.

There will be no other input than the solar panels so we are looking for a inverter that will start inverting as soon as light hits the solar panels. I understand that there are inverters that take a certain input amount before being able to convert. I am hoping someone here can give me a better understanding of how much that is and which inverter has a low start up.

The concluding question is which viltron inverter would be recommended in our situation where we want it to start at low input and also has a general low consumption.

Looking forward to your input! Thanks.


offgrid
3 comments
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shaneyake avatar image shaneyake commented ·
The first question I have for you is what size inverter do you need? What loads are you trying to run?

Can you install ground mount panels? as 6 total is very small.

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amrit avatar image amrit shaneyake commented ·

Thanks for your reply! We are new to the electric world so bear that in mind if I say something incorrect, and please explain if I have misunderstood anything.

We are currently looking at the MultiPlus-ll 48/3000/35-32 with the 2 MPPT's to split the panels. The loads that we are hoping to run in the winter is 1kwh per day. The main things we will want to run are a small fridge, a water pump and wifi router and some led lights at night, and possibly charge our phones, and laptops on the days that is possible.

Unfortunately we won't be able to have a ground mount. But we will be able to position the panels towards the south and have them at a 45 degree angle, which I have understood to be the best for the winter months (in Holland).

We are looking at the 48/3000 because in the summer we also want to be able to cook on a single electric induction stove. In the winter we will be cooking on gas.




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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack amrit commented ·
3000VA Inverter and then only 4kWh storrage?


This will NEVER work!


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6 Answers
von-baron avatar image
von-baron answered ·

It would be good to list more details.

You say six solar panels, but you need to specify what type of panel, the power rating of each panel.

I'm guessing you are thinking of having two strings of three panels, correct ?

There really is no a need to use two MPPT charge controllers, instead on just one capable of handling the complete solar panel array, which would be more efficient.

Say a SmartSolar or BlueSolar 150|70 could be what works best.

My understanding of the inverter you mention, the MultiPlus-II, is that is is a grid connectable unit, hence more electronics that you probably don't need if as you say, you will be totally off-grid. Better to use an inverter that simply converts battery DC to AC. You want to size your inverter close to your expected maximum AC loads for best efficiency. No point having a 3000VA inverter if your maximum load is only 1000VA, that is a waste. I understand you may want to use a small induction cook top during summer months.

I am wondering why for such a small system you are wanting to go to 48 Volt system, not that this is a bad choice. But is seems you might not be able to expand the solar panel due to space.

You need to think about how the system is designed, can you get with your six solar panels enough energy put back into the battery for each day during the winter months ? Okay, I am on the other side of the Earth, down under at a latitude less than where you would be, 42°South, little island called van diemans land, ja, echt ja, and I have six solar panels into a larger system, and I can tell you you are very likely to have a hard time during winter months in Nederland without having additional power input, especially when you have a run of rainy days.

In my case, I am lucky in that I have a micro-hydro power plant, which makes more than enough during the dark months. So, you do need to think very carefully to have a system that will work for you as you need and with so very little solar panels.

If your solar panels are around 400Watts each, then that is good, but if they are 200Watts each, then seeking additional advice might be good.

What type of battery, I am going to guess LiFePO4 of some sort, maybe Victron ?

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hardy-tuner avatar image
hardy-tuner answered ·

45 degree angle is not high enough, when the sun reach 20-25degree max at highest point.

Like von-baron said, use smaller inverter, these ones have lower selfconsumption and even at night u shutdown to sace energy(fridge can hold temperature at night)

or two differnt ones, one 500-800 (fridge/light), another for powerfull loads. Multiplus is not needed, exept u have a gS generator for some emergency reasons

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Michelle Konzack avatar image
Michelle Konzack answered ·

I suggest you also to use a 250V charger, where you can have usually 6 panels in series and it will deliver more power between autumn and spring

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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack commented ·
Since you are in Holland, I strongly suggest you one or two windmills. I use the ist-Breeze i2000/48 and the i700/48 because the big one deliver real output above 8m/s already while the small one use a blade lenght of 107cm (same as the big one) and not the short 96cm ones which allow me already charging at 5-6m/s.


However, it might be, that 107cm on the small one could be too much for the mostly windy Holland and you will be not mire able to break it once in a storm.


Note: the iSTA-Breeze is very inexpensive, BUT do not use the original Mast wich comes in 1m long pieces, because the break at the treads off. Go to a steel workshop and let you make two custom masts from a singel 6m S355 (60mm and 50mm) pipe (3-4mm wall thickness) ans you will be happy.


Greetings from the currently very windy Estonia


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rvicev avatar image
rvicev answered ·

You may first want to do some simulations using the EU PVGIS tool to see what 6 solar panels can produce in Holland, and analyse your power consumption before looking at the type of inverter/charger you need ..... https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/fr/

I have a very low power consumption and are looking to go off-grid (further south than Holland), but simulations show I would need 12-18 panels (375-400) and 15+ kWh battery storage to be on the safe side ....

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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack commented ·
Hahaha... a mega solar farm for being Off-the-Grid!


I was running PVGIS for my place (59° Latitude) too...


...and need minimal 500kWh of Battery Storrage plus around 180kWp of Solarpanels. ROTFL!


I have chosen 70,5kWh Batteries, 1860Wp Solarpanels 3 Windmills with 2000Wp and two Windmills with 700Wp...


...and I have still to use from time to time my Hatz Diesel 1,9kW (28V with 68A) to get the Batteries in the Winter full.


Doubling the Batteries (cost 11.000€) would help very much to get over December/January but for now I add 2460Wp with a second SmartSolar MPPT 250/100-Tr VE.Can.


Have a nice day


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nesswill avatar image
nesswill answered ·

I agree with the above comments.

If you can only have x6 solar panels (mine are at 55 degrease) you need them in series as Michelle says, i have and they start before the sun comes up (5 to 10 mins) and sill charging when the sun goes down. (every little bit counts right!)

One thing i have learnt is over-size as much as you can and or add a wind turbine if you can, if not you will need a small generator to take up the slack.

Dave.

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michaeld avatar image
michaeld answered ·

Also agreeing with the above comments. I'm off-grid in London with two 415W panels (parallel though, series would start earlier but I have shading issues) and 2kWh of usable battery storage. Similar latitude and my usage is also 1kWh per day. On an average winter day I make less than a fifth of that from the solar, so I'd guess you're looking at around 3/5 with an ideal tilt.

I'd suggest a smaller inverter too to match your loads as they're most efficient close to their capacity - my 1600W is only around 75% efficient on a 70W fridge load - and make careful use of AES mode. Running the inverter in search mode saves me around 125Wh per day compared to being left on.

I would also consider alternative sources if you can - could you ground mount any panels? Add some wind (with a dump load)? Failing anything else you'd probably benefit from even a small generator.

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