URGENT: Battling with USB on MultiPlus-II GX with Powered Hubs

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Warwick Bruce Chapman asked Jan 30, '22

URGENT: Battling with USB on MultiPlus-II GX with Powered Hubs

Due to the non-availability of MultiPlus II, we have been using MultiPlus-II 5kVA GX and are having serious problems with the USB port for multiple USB / VE.Direct devices.

All installations I am referring to now have maximum 2 x MPPT (1 x USB to VE.Direct) and 1 x Energy Meter (1 x USB to RS485).

We are using high quality 30 USD D-Link DUB-H7 hubs with 12V power from an Orion 48-12 DC DC Converter. On a near daily basis, we are having to reboot the GX device because one of the two USB devices disappears.

It has been suggested to me by another installer that this is a nanopi problem. We would appreciate some assistance from Victron in this respect. PS. We did try USB powered hubs and we had the same issue.

We now have 5 installations with this issue and around 3 more going in each week. We have to find a solution.

Multiplus-II modifications

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Al commented · Jan 30, 2022 at 11:12 AM

Do you have ferrite choke beads on the USB cables? (and all cables coming out of the GX)

I was having the same issue with a Bluetooth dongle on an active USB cable and hub at the end disappearing, but putting ferrite chokes at both ends of the cables seems to have helped.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman Al commented · Feb 01, 2022 at 12:55 PM

Thanks, we will try add these but we have never yet had issues with any USB requiring ferrite chokes. We have ordered 10 and will provide feedback.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman answered · Mar 03, 2022 at 10:02 AM

UPDATE

We continue to work with Victron on this question, but our interim assessment is that this may be USB chipset related.

We have determined that for smaller systems, the best solution is the following unpowered hub:

Digitus Slim Spider 4-port USB 2.0 Hub (DA-70216) - https://www.techinn.com/en/digitus-slim-spider-usb-hub/137831753/p

For larger systems that required a powered hub, the StarTech range is best and we've tested:

StarTech 4-port USB 2.0 Hub (ST4202USBGB) powered with 48V to 5V supply like an Orion - https://za.rs-online.com/web/p/usb-hubs/1385535/

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wkirby ♦♦ commented · Mar 03, 2022 at 11:26 AM

Indeed, the Digitus Spider has an SMSC (now Microchip) chipset. SMSC is my personal favourite USB chipset, I use it in some of my own product designs and it has always been reliable for years now.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman wkirby ♦♦ commented · Mar 03, 2022 at 12:45 PM

We see it as Terminus?

lsusb

Bus 001 Device 006: ID 1a40:0101 Terminus Technology Inc. Hub

dmesg

[  421.624797] usb 1-1.2: new high-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-pci
[  421.733490] usb 1-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=1a40, idProduct=0101, bcdDevice= 1.11
[  421.733493] usb 1-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=1, SerialNumber=0
[  421.733495] usb 1-1.2: Product: USB 2.0 Hub
[  421.733882] hub 1-1.2:1.0: USB hub found
[  421.733948] hub 1-1.2:1.0: 4 ports detected

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wkirby ♦♦ Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Mar 03, 2022 at 01:16 PM

They've changed sides then. I definitely had an SMSC chip in the Spider that I had.

Terminus are OK. I've got a PCB with a Terminus FE1.1 on it. It enumerates well and works OK most of the time, but if you give it too much to do it hangs or locks up. For example, a 1080p camera stream tends to make it spontaneously soil it's self after a few minutes.
I don't think that using it in the way we would do here would cause a Terminus device to lock up, it's pretty laid back sort of work.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman wkirby ♦♦ commented · Mar 03, 2022 at 01:24 PM

Interestingly, another hub we tested NOT WORKING used the same chipset:

Orico 4-port USB 2.0 Desktop Hub (W5P-U2) - unpowered

lsusb

Bus 001 Device 008: ID 1a40:0101 Terminus Technology Inc. Hub

dmesg

[ 1101.845718] usb 1-1.2: USB disconnect, device number 7
[ 1210.866198] usb 1-1.2: new high-speed USB device number 8 using ehci-pci
[ 1210.974879] usb 1-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=1a40, idProduct=0101, bcdDevice= 1.11
[ 1210.974883] usb 1-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=1, SerialNumber=0
[ 1210.974885] usb 1-1.2: Product: USB 2.0 Hub
[ 1210.975420] hub 1-1.2:1.0: USB hub found
[ 1210.975462] hub 1-1.2:1.0: 4 ports detected

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Warwick Bruce Chapman Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Mar 04, 2022 at 06:58 AM

@WKirby - just want to emphasise that the post above is the same chipset in a different hub which does NOT work.

Happy to send to you for confirmation because it would be great to get to the bottom of this. It works at first and then one of the devices drops off until GX is rebooted.

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wkirby ♦♦ Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Mar 04, 2022 at 09:15 AM

Then there is also the way that the gadget is constructed.

Several tenths of a cent can be saved by omitting bypass capacitors and having poor signal routing on the PCB.
It's very easy to ignore the directions on the chip's datasheet and have a gadget that does work some of the time.

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2022-01-30T11:26:02Z

kevgermany answered · Jan 30, 2022 at 11:26 AM

If you're using USB 3 cables with the extra connections/blue internals, could be that. Some are good, some give problems like this.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Feb 01, 2022 at 01:56 PM

Will check but we have tried hard to keep USB 2.0 only.

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Answer 2 · 2022-01-30T12:01:45Z

neki answered · Jan 30, 2022 at 12:01 PM

I dont know how long is cabels... i had some problem whit long usb cabels. Maybe thats its issue. Maybe try make usb cabel whit little bigger diametar of wires. And i dont know is orion is giving non stop power or have some milisec where he check system. Try other power supply too. Thats my thinking.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Feb 01, 2022 at 02:01 PM

Nothing longer than about 0.5m on the USB side. Obviously, the RS485 to Energy Meter is direct to port and the USB to VE.Direct is also direct to port in the USB portion.

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Answer 3 · 2022-03-22T10:44:31Z

apple047 answered · Mar 22, 2022 at 10:44 AM

I’ve been trying to use one of D-link DUB-H7 hub today but doesn’t work either, it would have been amazing if Victron would test and provide a list of compatible hubs for use.

In particular where the Multiplus II GX is known to have only one USB port and one VE direct. For most common installation you would use 1x shunt 1x mppt and 1 or more Modbus meters…

Hopefully feedback is taken

Thanks

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Answer 4 · 2022-10-03T08:12:18Z

ecoworld answered · Oct 03, 2022 at 08:12 AM

So guys I’m limited to 5kw multiplus GX inverters at the moment and I have 2 smart solar 150-70-VE.CAN MPPTs plus a smart shunt to try and connect up to the limited GX inputs. I’m assuming I can use a non powered usb2 splitter cable to plug both MPPTs into the GX inverters USB port and then use VE.Direct port for the shunt. An expert on this forum just told me I’d need a powered hub, can this be correct, I find that totally overkill for simple ascii data transfer and do I have to tap into the 230v AC inverter supply to power a usb hub, crazy talk. What was your ultimate solution to your similar situation?

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Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Oct 03, 2022 at 06:54 PM

The problem is not throughput, in my experience, but stability. Once the USB hub 'died', it requires a reboot to get it back. The following was the only one we found to be stable under all circumstances:

https://za.rs-online.com/web/p/usb-hubs/1385535

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abegweit Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Oct 04, 2022 at 02:05 PM

Hi @Warwick Bruce Chapman , just wondering if the RF Chokes had any effect. I saw an earlier post in this thread to say you were planning to try them.

I'm seeing the same issue with a different system set up. In my case I am using USB to CAT6 extenders to connect the MultiPlus to a Raspberry PI running Venus OS over 40m of CAT6 cable.

MultiPlus > VE.BUS to USB adapter > CAT6 USB extender > 40m CAT6 cable > CAT6 USB extender > Raspberry PI USB port

The USB connection drops occasionally and re-booting the Raspberry PI always re-establishes the connection.

The MultiPlus is powering a fridge in an off grid cabin. The fridge is the only load aside from the a wireless router connecting the system to the internet. The AC output of the MultiPlus switches between 8W and about 100W when the fridge cycles on and back to 8W when the fridge cycles off.

I could see from the VRM data (1 min logging), that the USB connection is dropping either when the MultiPlus AC output transitions from 8W to 100W or from 100W to 8W.

The USB connection does not drop on every cycle, and it does not drop when the MultiPlus is stable producing 8W or 100W. The USB connection only drops when the Fridge cycles on or off.

I tried inserting a powered USB HUB between the VE.Bus to USB adapter and USB CAT6 extender but that made no improvement.

Reading this thread, I began to wonder if my connection is dropping due to noise induced on the long CAT6 cable run when the fridge cycles on or off and was hoping to hear if RF Chokes helped your situation.

Thanks

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Warwick Bruce Chapman abegweit commented · Oct 04, 2022 at 06:47 PM

Interesting setup.

No. Regret it did not.

But please do try and share your results. They are not expensive at all and easy to obtain.

If you have a distributor or installer nearby they may even have some left over from the GX Touch if not used.

In our application only the Startech USB hubs with industrial grade chipsets we’re stable. Everything else has given problems somewhere down the line despite others having success with a couple of other models.

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abegweit Warwick Bruce Chapman commented · Oct 04, 2022 at 08:25 PM

Thanks for getting back @Warwick Bruce Chapman . I will be back up to the cabin hopefully next week. I have the chokes and the hub on order and will try both solutions and report back.

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abegweit abegweit commented · Oct 18, 2022 at 11:01 PM

@Warwick Bruce Chapman I was able to get up to the cabin. 2 hours after installing the RF chokes, the USB connection dropped. So I installed the Startech USB powered hub. It has been running about a week and a half and I'm still seeing the USB connection drop but less frequently (perhaps once per day or two vs multiple times per day). Its time to shut the system down for the winter but I'll keep digging into this next spring and report back any progress.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman abegweit commented · Oct 19, 2022 at 07:40 AM

I'm sorry to hear that. I'd be interested to see what you find in the future. Please keep me in the loop.

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Answer 5 · 2022-12-03T23:24:41Z

gazza answered · Dec 03, 2022 at 11:24 PM

Reading through this thread I feel incredibly lucky. I used this Anker 4 port hub (unpowered) with a Multi 2 GX. It has the RS485 USB link from a ET112 meter and a MPPT VE Direct USB going through it, I haven’t noticed any dropouts or required any re-booting.? So, not sure of the significance of the specification but it just worked…?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-4-Port-Macbook-Surface-Notebook/dp/B00Y25XFGK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=Q25V7MMCAW2V&keywords=anker+4+port+usb+3.0+ultra+slim+data+hub&qid=1670110062&sprefix=Anker+if+4+port+hub%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-3

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