question

ross-skyenergy avatar image
ross-skyenergy asked

Multiplus II with Grid Connection and Gen with ATS

Is it possible to connect an ATS into "AC In" on the Multiplus II that switches to genset when there is a power outage and have the GX device know that it can not export any power as it has changed to Genset instead of Grid?

Or is there a better way of having Gen backup on a grid connected ESS system?

Multiplus-IIGenerator
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3 Answers
basil katakuzinos avatar image
basil katakuzinos answered ·

AC input types are basically static (Input 1 should either always be a generator or always be a grid). The best way to do this wouldbe to use a Quattro as it designed for two AC inputs and use with both grid and generator.

You can get away with this in a MP II but will probably end up having to do the changes manually every time you swictch from grid to gen (not ideal).

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offgridvoltage avatar image
offgridvoltage answered ·

Good question Ross. Theoretically the MPII should see the gen output as grid (after the initial grid fail depending on ATS delay) and sync accordingly, then keep doing whatever ESS it’s setup to do. But in reality it depends on the generator. If it’s a high end full inverter 9kVA Full Sine Wave then all would be normal. But… if it’s a cheap Chinese Industrial grade genset, then it’s output would be a dirty square wave that swings between 48-52 hertz with voltage bouncing around. This output would rejected by the MPII as “week AC” and treated as a continued failed grid / LOM event and the MPII would just remain in anti-island mode. The only way around this is to disable "LOM" detection in the Grid Code VE_Config. Type "B" LOM Detection should still work fine with a decent stable generator. The perfect solution is to install a Quattro and therefore have a dedicated Generator AC Input AND a Grid AC Input.....

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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

I have written an enhancement for adding an automatic transfer switch ahead of a Multi:

https://github.com/kwindrem/ExtTransferSwitch

This uses a digital input to tell the GX device if the incoming power is grid/shore or generator. The GX device then changes the input type from grid/shore to generator and sets the AC input current limit to appropriate values.

I can not speak to what happens with ESS feed-in when on generator. Does an input type of Generator disable feed-in? If not, additional work would be needed in ExtTtransferSwitch and I'd need help from someone who understands ESS to make sure power is not fed back to the generator.

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offgridvoltage avatar image offgridvoltage commented ·
Thanks Kevin. slightly off-topic, but would having an external ATS negate the need for LOM detection in Grid Codes ? I'm thinking that once the ATS is activated, there is physically an air gap between the grid and the rest of the loads / MCB / micro grid / PV setup etc etc. So it's literally a perfect ani-island measure.
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Kevin Windrem avatar image Kevin Windrem offgridvoltage commented ·
I'm no export on grid connection requirements but I'd say no you still need LOM. Some ATS won't transfer to the generator until generator power is present.
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offgridvoltage avatar image offgridvoltage Kevin Windrem commented ·
Yes, 100%. If the generator failed to start, it wouldn't supply it's AC power to the ATS relays and therefore the ATS wouldn't switch over the loads from Grid to the Generator. Thus it would stay connected to the failed grid.... Cheers ;)
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JohnC avatar image JohnC ♦ offgridvoltage commented ·
@OffGridVoltage

Take care using a genset into an ATS. You may find the gen can't handle the instant load, goes out of spec and gets rejected - ad infinitum..

I tried it once years ago, and the chattering from a pair of 40A relays was something to behold. It broke a led indicator light on the ATS panel in the few seconds I had it running. That was a Yamaha 6kVA AVR, without a big load either.

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