Hi,
We are experiencing a over heating problem on a bank of 5 x 125a/h super cycle batteries on our narrowboat. Runs fine off-grid using just solar, but I get an over heating alarm when using the engine alternator or shore power to charge. Batteries actually get too hot to touch after cruising for a few hours. This is a recent development, batteries are just 3 years old. Any advice would be much appreciated?
cant help much, with the info provided.
would need to know the charge voltage at the time ( measured at the battery terminals with your own multi-meter)
Charge amps at the time
and battery Temp using a temp gun or similar
But this does not sound good. I suspect you are overcharging them ie voltage maybe to high or the max amps the battery can take is being exceeded.
this overheat will damage the batteries if it has not already done so.
Maybe the referance volage thats been used is incorrect and thus the real charge voltage is way to high.
Almost the same problem here, but with 170 Ah SuperCycle batteries - a bank of four batteries. All Victron charging equipment controlled by Cerbo GX, latest firmware, correct settings. Balmar alternator with ARS-5 external regulator. Correct charge voltage and, nevertheless, overheating to 130F. My installer did extensive troubleshooting with me over the phone and referred me to a local Victron dealer who opened RMA tickets with Victron for all 4 batteries (still under warranty). Waiting for Victron's decision on this matter. I was a big proponent of Victron, love their engineering and how all components play together but this battery issue really leaves a sour taste in my mouth...
Same problem with 4 x 170ah batteries. Temp issues from solar charging via 3 MPPT's and 550w of solar, so not enough to overcharge.
Hi, I have (5) Victron 165 AGM In our Foutaine Catamaran that is now 10 years old. The boat came with (5) Varna 150 ah AGM. After 4.5 years we replaced the batteries with (5) Mastervolt 160ah AGM. Never a problem using the same Philippi Batery Monitoring system. Going into the Pacific we replaced the Mastervolts with (5) Victorn 165ah. Using the same charging system which is solar and the standard alternators supplied with the boat. For whatever reason the Victron AGM batteries appear to heat up when using an engine Not the solar system. We do not have a generator, only solar. The battery monitor systems seems to sense the same battery temperatures that a digital thermometer does so I don’t think the problem is with the temperature sender. It just seems the Victron batteries heat up, as this was never a problem with the Varta or Mastervolt batteries. Any advice Victron?
Just wondering if anyone came to the resolution of this issue. My 4x170Ah SuperCycle batteries were replaced by Victron under warranty in September 2022 due to overheating while charging and now one of the new batteries overheats again! I have all Victron charging components, the firmware is religiously updated to the latest versions, and the installation has been re-checked and verified by a few different Victron dealers. And, BTW, the new warranty claim has been pending with Victron for over a month now, and all they are saying "Please wait a few more days, we are backlogged with the battery warranty claims". I guess this is the cost of outsourcing production to China...
BTW, it appears that this issue is more widespread than we think: https://jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/9659/agm-battery-bank-hot-different
Hi everyone. We have exactly the same issue with our 6 super cycle 230ah only 6 months old ! We are struggling with victron to have a warranty cover and to find the initial reason.
I understand from your posts that to replace them will not solve the issue. Does anyone have found the origin ?
I do not know if you observe the same think but it seems to have started with the buck boost only which continue to inject A in the batteries despite the fact that they were fully charged . It seems to never come in float mode and moreover. It reduces the charge near the 100/100 but after 2/3 hours it increase the charge again
No that the batteries are deteriorated, this is the inverter that does the same. It Never goes in float mode.
It doesn’t seem to happen on solar.
With buckboost
With inverter
Your issue is overcharge, like I mean gross overcharge.
Set the length of your Absorb time manually to (say) an hour, maybe 1.5 hr, until you determine an optimum. Don't use these chargers again until you can control this.
Please read the manuals, or find a local expert who can advise you.
The "gross" overcharging is caused by one of the batteries heating up, which lowers internal resistance and increases charge current. This tricks the charger into staying longer in the absorption stage which in turn continues the vicious cycle until the offending battery heats the batteries next to it to 50C and if one of them, hopefully, has the temp sensor installed that, hopefully, stops the charger dead in its tracks. A few cycles like that and the offending battery is bulging and almost dead and the surrounding batteries are bulging and near dead. I went through this twice. One can either drop the absorption voltage to 14.2V and keep his fingers crossed (but then it will take much longer to have the bank charged), or limit the max absorption time to 2 hours and, again, keep his fingers crossed (and this might cause batteries to be constantly undercharged), but these are band-aid types of solutions. Victron needs to get to the bottom of it!
Please don't put words in my mouth. This is simply a case of too long an Absorb time. Had it been terminated at a realistic time the batteries wouldn't have commenced their upward T-spiral. The current even went up as they became hotter, the T rise then accelerating. Classic thermal runaway. That's why I called it 'gross'.
Victron doesn't need to 'get to the bottom of it!', they know it already. They just can't control how end-users treat their batteries wrt settings.
There may well be something else at play, but for @Dede59's issue it would need further checking after the excessive Absorb time is corrected.
So this is what I did after having my 4 SuperCycle batteries replaced under warranty by Victron for the SECOND time in 2 years. I purchased 4 Victron temperature sensors (the ones with black insulation that go on the negative battery post). I connected all of them to Victron Cerbo GX temperature sensor inputs (it has 4 inputs). I bought two 120MM 12V computer fans made corresponding holes in my battery compartment wall, installed the fans, and then connected them to the CerboGX relay. I set up the relay to be triggered by any of the four temperature sensors when the temperature exceeds 34 C and to switch off when the temperature drops below 31C. I made two inlet holes for air intake as well. This both gave me a way to see the temperatures of EACH battery and have the battery box ventilated when any of the batteries start to heat up. So far this has been working very well. What I see is that some time by the end of the absorption stage one of the middle two batteries starts to heat up. I guess, if left alone it would overheat, drop its internal resistance, get even more current, prevent the charger from switching to float, and go into the thermal runaway as it was happening with the previous two sets of the batteries. Now, the fans kick on, though, and quickly reduce the battery temperature. This cycle continues until the Multiplus charger eventually goes to float and then the batteries cool down or it might continue for a bit if solar takes over and proceeds pumping some current into the batteries during the day. Another tip is to install the Multiplus or BMV temperature sensor (and the alternator temperature sensor) on one of two middle batteries in the bank - it appears that the ones on the sides of the bank do not heat up that much when charging. My theory on this is that since the SuperCycle batteries have lower internal resistance than other AGM batteries they are just more susceptible to overheating due to being able to accept higher current. It is a shame, though, that Victron is totally oblivious to this issue and can't provide any insight or useful advice (Trust me, I went as far as having an email exchange with the CEO of the company on this matter)...
These are the parts I used:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08M14SWY6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B6GDH7JZ
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010FAW5KM
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SJ47R72
Hi guys,
For all of you that have overheating problems and you are using them in a 24v or more system.
The batteries are, I believe, 12v lead type, so you have 2 for 24v or 4 for 48v in series.
Question is: do you have a balancing system when you have several un-managed batteries in series?
Because, like rostyvyg mentioned above, when one of the batteries became fully charged and the other(s) are not, the fully charged battery voltage is ramping up while others drop...
This, for the same current, will lead to an accelerated heat-up of the fully charged battery and voila...
When on a 24v or more system, use a battery balancer system for AGM/lead batteries and the problems will solve by itself.
Like this one: https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/battery-balancer
Just my opinion which may be far removed from the truth....
Alex
Thanks a lot and very clear.
I am in touch with victron that is investigating but I think this is the same issue as you rostivig.
Hope victron will reach to the same conclusion soon.
My concerns when I look at your solutions are :
- I am in Africa so temperature is always higher than 35 / 40 degres in the truxk
- the first event seems that have been generated by the buck boost that can not be connected to the cerbo so controled by temperature
In fact, should that mean that this super cycle are not adapted and that I should change the model ? Deep cycle ?
"should that mean that this super cycle are not adapted and that I should change the model ?"
No. It means that you haven't adapted to your climate and the kit you're using. You are abusing them.
Relying too on Rostyvyg's posts as backup is fraught with danger. Here's some of his story.. https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/173977/victron-super-cycle-agm-sizzle-and-smoke.html?childToView=254355#answer-254355
It isn't Victron abusing these batts.
Honestly I do not understand that answer… victron system is sold in Africa also so… my question is what would be more adapted for that climate therefore ?
i am looking for solutions here, not to identify who is responsable :)
If victron is not the right product, I have to know it
I live in Australia. It gets hot here too. Victron is the best I've found.
Your initial graphs show overcharge clearly as the reason for your issue, in your case not necessarily the level of charge V per se, but an overly prolonged application of Absorb level. You need to deal with that. Not next week, now!
The default charge settings would normally be adjusted by a trained installer. You can diy it, but then you have to know what you're doing. Manual reading isn't most people's favourite pastime, but this isn't Lego block assembly.
I've given you the solution, at least the emergency stage of it. By all means get a second opinion and even discuss it here. This is up to you alone, or your installer.
Here in South Africa, prior to moving to lithium, we used the Victron batteries under very warm conditions without any issue.
Between conservative settings and making sure to use temperature compensation, they worked flawlessly.
John knows what he is talking about, you would be wise to pay attention to his guidance, if anyone is a Pb battery whisperer, it is him.
I think it is not a matter of ambient temperature, but is more related to battery banks usually installed in enclosed and purely ventilated boxes. But, first of all, it appears you must never charge SuperCycle batteries without temperature compensation so your buck converter method is probably not the best way of charging them in the first place. Make sure there is enough airflow around the batteries and use the charger (or alternator with an external regulator) that has a temperature probe. Place the probe on one of the middle batteries in the bank. Have temperature compensation values programmed correctly into the charging source. With the correct setup, your batteries should work for your purpose with no issues. If you have a house bank and a starter battery it is always better to charge the house bank with a temperature-compensated charger (or alternator) and your starter battery with a DC to DC charger ( also temperature-compensated, like Balmar Digital Duo Charge: https://balmar.net/products/digital-duo-charge/). Now if your charging setup is corrected but no sufficient airflow is present around the battery bank, though, then the scenario I described (with one of the batteries going into thermal runaway and keeping the charger thinking that it needs to continue in the absorption stage) is what would be causing premature failure, so keep that in mind.
Force ventilating a battery box is just a workaround. If I did that to mine they'd get hotter.
Overcharge is your issue too, it generates heat. You've steadfastly refused to accept this, but please don't promote such remedies as panaceas. They're not.
You've destroyed 2 banks now, and your third failure beckons if you continue treating yours like you do.
Lead based battery chemistries are affected by temperature. Battery life is shortened by high temperature operation.
In extreme circumstances even sealed batteries will vent and can give off poisonous gasses.
Adequate cooling and ventilation is essential.
Consider switching to LFP on replacement. They also need ventilation, proper charge control and have life shortened by high temperature operation
I would think about how I am using the battery...
Discharge it daily and recharge it, (automobile like) then this is "Cycle usage" and I would set the charging voltage accordingly, 14.4V - 15.0V with short absorption time.
Discharge it slowly or use it in standby and charge it once in a time, (UPS like) then this is "Standby usage" and set the voltage: 13.5V - 13.8V with long absorption time.
It's written on the battery....
For sure it won't heat up...
I just met another sailor who had his Victron CuperCycle batteries in the house bank overheated due to one of the batteries going into thermal runaway. He described the same symptoms as I had seen on my boat: one of the batteries (unfortunately not the one with a temperature sensor on it) started to heat up and consume excessive current thus tricking Multi{Plus into staying in Absorbtion longer than necessary. This caused overheating of other batteries until the one with the temperature sensor on it heated up to 50C and had MultiPlus shut off. By that time the whole bank was bulging. The problem here is - there is no one at Victron to talk about this issue. The supplier has no direct communication with the Victron engineering team. It's incredible how the company managed to insulate itself from the end users...
Here the same. The supplier do not use anymore this batteries…
Rostyvig : could we chat by email directly ? Laurent.j.eremy@gmail.com
(Do not see in the rules any rule that say that we can not give email to an other member ?? :))
Please follow forum rules.
