No load idle consumption Victron Quattro 48/10000/140-100/100

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offgridsa asked Feb 2, '19

No load idle consumption Victron Quattro 48/10000/140-100/100

Today I powered up for the first time my new Victron Quattro 48/10000/140-100/100. With no Ac load on the inverter. I only had the battery wired to inverter and no other DC loads (just the victron BMV 712 meter) that consumes just 1w with it's back light on.

Inverter on no load consumption was showing 100w or just under 2A load on the battery.

Shunt is accurate and confirmed accuate before hand. That said I still went ahead and confirmed this 100w load reading with two other meters that gave me the same reading.

The specifications from Victron. list this inverter as having a 55w powered on idle consumption

I am a little shocked - disappointed that it consumes almost double the rated idle load.

Part of the reason I selected this inverter over other options was the listed idle consumption of 55w seemed reasonable for a 10,000va inverter.

At 100w it's 2.4kwh every day before I even use any AC power.

Is this a issue with my inverter or are the listed specs incorrect? Can anyone confirm the no load consumption of there victron Quattro inverter matches listed specs.

Video link to idle consumption test https://youtu.be/dR7JukmgDng

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger

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victron-inverter-specs.jpg (98.0 KiB)

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offgridsa commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 11:00 PM

I filmed a short video today showing my issue Idle consumption test

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Answer 1 · 2019-02-02T22:07:08Z

ben answered · Feb 02, 2019 at 10:07 PM

That sounds high to me. My 15kVA unit consumes a little less than that at idle.

How did you verify the "reading" with the other meters? I mean, exactly what measurement did you take? The BMV can be pretty off and require some meaningful offset to zero the reading.

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offgridsa commented · Feb 02, 2019 at 10:44 PM

Thanks Ben,

The BMV 712 Reads 0w with no loads connected. I have confirmed the BMV 712 voltage readings accurate along side a Fluke 87v that is calibrated agenised my HP bench meter. I also have a 2nd 50A 50mv current shunt meter that confirms the same readings as the 712. The 3rd method (Quick and rough method) was to use a clamp meter on the battery wire showed 1.9A (at 52.5v)

I am very confident the readings are accurate. The listed specs for your 15kva inverter are 80w my 10kVA is listed at 55w so 100w is way over spec.

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ben ♦ offgridsa commented · Feb 02, 2019 at 11:15 PM

Yeah, that doesn't sound right. I believe mine were pretty close -- and certainly not 2x.

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Answer 2 · 2019-02-02T23:52:12Z

offgridsa answered · Feb 02, 2019 at 11:52 PM

Only thing I can think of is considering the quattro has two transformers one for the DC/AC inverter and the 2nd transformer for the AC/DC charger side perhaps the charger transformer is consuming the additional 45w perhaps try disabling the charger. Though logical thinking is the loss in the chargers transformer would be taken from the AC input side of that transformer and not from the battery side.

Would be nice to see another Quattro 48/10000 no load consumption to confirm I have a issue.

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ben ♦ commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 05:52 AM

Have you tried putting it into one of the two energy saving modes (AES or Search) and seeing what it draws then? That'd be one easy data point to gather, I suppose, while you wait for someone more official to provide input.

I went and looked at my notes on consumption. My 48/15000 measured right at ~80W with no loads, matching the datasheet.

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offgridsa ben ♦ commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 09:19 PM

Will try that today and report back My thinking is if there is 45w extra idle consumption in all modes then where is that 45w going ....heating something!

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boekel ♦ commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 01:58 PM

I just checked my not very new 48v/10k unit and it used exactly 50W

the two transformers are used in parallel, not the way you describe.

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offgridsa boekel ♦ commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 09:16 PM

Thanks Boekel, 50w sounds good thats 10% less than listed specs.

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boekel ♦ offgridsa commented · Feb 13, 2019 at 12:28 AM

Indeed, I think I'll check it with a multi-meter also (used a BMV now).

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Answer 3 · 2019-02-03T07:07:05Z

Paul B answered · Feb 03, 2019 at 07:07 AM

silly question but are the cooling fans running when you are doing the tests ???

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offgridsa commented · Feb 03, 2019 at 10:12 AM

No fans running as there was no Ac load not even wired . Just pulled it out of the box wired the battery cable and sat it on the bench in 25c temp and turned it on.

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Answer 4 · 2019-02-07T04:03:19Z

offgridsa answered · Feb 07, 2019 at 04:03 AM

Am I able to get a response direct from Victron on the above issue. As I dont want to install this inverter if it needs to be returned.

If I need to go back to my supplier I feel having a clear answer from Victron first is necessary.

A reply asap would be greatly appreciated.

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boekel ♦ commented · Feb 07, 2019 at 10:39 AM

I'm not the one to answer this (I'm just an installer), but I'd have gone back to my supplier / installer the first moment. If your measurements are right, I think the unit should be replaced / fixed.

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offgridsa boekel ♦ commented · Feb 07, 2019 at 01:55 PM

I purchased it online from a interstate Victron distributor. So not sure how the Victron network works but it would be way more practical to take it to the local Victron distributor 30 min drive away than 10hrs drive Interstate. To heavy to ship back and risky posting a very expensive item.

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Answer 5 · 2019-02-12T18:43:21Z

natebert answered · Feb 12, 2019 at 06:43 PM

Interesting. I thought I was the only one to see this too.
We run two Quattro 12/5000/220-100/100 120V Inverter/Chargers and we often see up to 120w idle DC load across my shunt when there is zero AC current being created, which seems to be near double what it was rated for (2x30w)
But I also have to mention that have no way of measuring/isolating only my inverters from my BMS, CCGX and other small parasitic draw from the LEDS on my Lynx power distribution, and the Digital Multi Conrtol. (all of which on paper indicated that they have loads in the milliamp range, and would be nearly impossible to measure for me.)
I eventually accepted this consumption as my 'normal' operating cost of energy for running my system, but I'd be interested in hearing what others experience.

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ben ♦ commented · Feb 12, 2019 at 06:55 PM

I doubt those other items contribute any meaningful load.

On the other hand, both of my BMVs were meaningfully off on measuring baseline current. I had to use the zero-calibration to get them to behave.

2x the rated power is a lot, though. I’m not sure I’d be willing to accept that, if it’s real.

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Answer 6 · 2019-02-12T23:01:03Z

mvader (Victron Energy) answered · Feb 12, 2019 at 11:01 PM

Hi @OffgridSA; thats a lot indeed!

However; indeed the standby load varies a lot per unit. Its not a broken in the way that we can repair it and make it better I'm afraid.

(ps. I'm sorry for the slow reply; I should have answered sooner)

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mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented · Feb 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM

Please contact your supplier and they can discuss with the local sales manager to find a good solution. I'll make sure they're informed.

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offgridsa commented · Feb 13, 2019 at 03:36 AM

Thank you Mvader, I will contact my supplier. Perhaps they can pre test a 10Kva for me so ensure it's somewhat closer to specs than the one I have now.

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Answer 7 · 2019-04-07T23:48:16Z

offgridsa answered · Apr 07, 2019 at 11:48 PM

I finaly received my replacement inverter today. I requested a Victron quattro 48 8000 over the 48 10,000 as It was suggested that there was a higher success rate with the 8kva consuming the actual listed spec no load idle consumption of 50w.

I powered on the inverter and I am disappointed to report it consumes 1.5A or 80w. 60% over the listed spec.

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porcini commented · Apr 08, 2019 at 09:41 AM

Exactly 80W have already been measured for the 8kVA units a few years ago. After some tests Victron increased the datasheet value. At that time I wondered why they changed it to only "50W". As I can see it's still 80W. I love Victron, but that's dubious. I would really like to see more than one unit of the 8000/48 which only takes 50W. I don't want to know what the 15kVA takes in reality (haven't seen one yet). So thank you for broaching the consumption.

Two links which show/talk about a higher value:

https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2563-victron-solutions/?do=findComment&comment=41691

https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/thread/110307-eigenverbrauch-victron-in-nulllast/?pageNo=2

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ben ♦ porcini commented · Apr 08, 2019 at 09:51 AM

Yeah, that's disappointing. It's never a good idea to trust datasheets, but Victron should get this corrected.

In my notes, I have my 15kVA measuring in at 95W. However, I believe that number was an estimate using an uncalibrated hall effect clip rather than a calibrated, precision shunt.

I'm going to re-check this the next time I have my system down for maintenance. I'll update this thread when I do that.

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offgridsa porcini commented · Apr 08, 2019 at 01:48 PM

Thanks for the links. Yes after translating that 2nd one to English it was a eye opener.

Yes the listed no load idle consumption specs for the quattro 8kva and 10kva are incorrect. They both consume considerably more than listed.

Shame they cant just admit it and rectify the specs to avoid misleading more future customers.

I have decided to keep the 8kva and live with the true 80w idle consumption. As that aside the inverter looks like a nice unit.

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Answer 8 · 2021-06-21T06:45:39Z

zac answered · Jun 21, 2021 at 06:45 AM

I have the same Victron Quattro 48v/10kva and have the exact same issue. The no idle consumption sits at 100w. I'm also running a BMV-712 so confident the numbers are right.

Has anyone found a solution to this? I have switched back to my old Chinese inverter because I can't stomach an inverter using that much power at idle. Any help would be much appreciated

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Answer 9 · 2021-06-21T07:28:40Z

zac answered · Jun 21, 2021 at 07:28 AM

Is it possible that updating firmware could help with this issue?

Thanks, Zac

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iand commented · Sep 28, 2021 at 04:46 PM

Not according to Victron, see comment from mvader above:

"However; indeed the standby load varies a lot per unit. Its not a broken in the way that we can repair it and make it better I'm afraid."

So Victron know about this issue, and multiple people have complained about it over several years. Presumably the reply from mvader which said:

"Please contact your supplier and they can discuss with the local sales manager to find a good solution. I'll make sure they're informed."

means that if you complain loudly enough (because it is way over the specified value) they'll replace it -- hopefully with one that does meet the spec, thought I don't see how they can guarantee this without pre-testing it. Then presumably the "bad" unit gets sold to somebody else in the hope that they don't kick up such a fuss, since Victron said they can't repair it.

This is pretty shabby behaviour from a reputable company like Victron, it seems that they're knowingly supplying equipment which doesn't always meet their published specification, and hoping that customers don't reject it. And they've known about this issue for several years but have not changed the specification...

It's especially annoying for me because I'm having a boat built next year which will have a Quattro 48/10000 installed, so I'm hoping that by then the new Quattro II will be available in this size and that this meets the idle power specification (same 38W as Multiplus II 48/10000?)...

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Answer 10 · 2021-09-28T12:33:56Z

Trevor Bird answered · Sep 28, 2021 at 12:33 PM

We have just installed 2 x 12/5000/220 Quattro units and both of them have a no AC load idle current of twice the 26 watt specification. That was tested with a clamp meter and confirmed by the smartshunt. It is a lot of current use for no load.
In this case the search AES was not suited to the task ( 2 seconds off in search mode) and modified sine wave when active indicated “Low Power” on the GX touchscreen. That would certainly create a client phone call so it was disengaged.

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Answer 11 · 2023-10-12T12:02:44Z

twistedtree answered · Oct 12, 2023 at 12:02 PM

This problem persists. I just powered up two 48V 8kw quattros and both draw 90W with AC output disconnected. DC current draw confirmed with a clamp-on meter as well as the BMS. I'm VERY disappointed. That's 4kwh per day, which is huge. That is WAY more than the sub zero fridge that it powers, and makes it the single largest power consumer for this installation. I can't begin to describe how annoyed and disappointed I am. Unlike another earlier comment, I DO take datasheets as fact. They are a vendor's commitment for product form and function. Victron, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

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