Quattro disconnect of AC-out-2 while on Shore Power ?

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sven-nurber asked Nov 7, '20

Quattro disconnect of AC-out-2 while on Shore Power ?

Hi Forum. This QUATTRO 5KW/24V/240V (QUA245021010) is disconnecting AC-out-2 intermittently. The triggering event seems to be an AC compressor starting current although it sometimes will run with the same compressor and sometimes even a second one. The Quattro nameplate says 45-55 Hz input although the manual says 45-65 Hz input ? Shore power is 211V 60Hz (120/208V). I've attached a couple views of waveform ( full-scale and close-up ) that might give insights into the cause ? Blue signal is AC-in-1 at Quattro, red signal is AC-out-2 from Quattro, green signal is AC-out-2 current. This boat was manufactured with EU sourced Victron for sale in the US which technically leaves me with no support other than this forum ?

Ripple Quattro disconnect with x1 AC compressor & pump load.pdf

Ripple Quattro disconnect with x1 AC compressor & pump load closeup.pdf

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger

ripple-quattro-disconnect-with-x1-ac-compressor-pu.pdf (424.3 KiB)

ripple-quattro-disconnect-with-x1-ac-compressor-pu.pdf (415.4 KiB)

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jwfrary answered · Nov 10, 2020 at 09:35 AM

@Sven Nurber and @DeVerm Dynamic current limiting is only for use with inverter type generator sets and won't solve your problem in this case. Its designed for a generator which needs to rev up to speed to meet a higher load. - so not for shore power or fixed speed Genny's.

I would think its far more likely the voltage is dropping as the AC load comes on causing the quattro to drop into inverter mode briefly and therefore AC2 is going off and would explain the funky frequency/voltage curves.

out of the box the voltage limits are often set quite tight, you might want to try dropping the AC disconnect voltage to 180-190v and see if it solves your problem.

You could also alter the sensitivity of the quattro by turning off the UPS setting. - But try opening up the voltage settings first.

You will need a Mk3 device and Ve.configure.

In terms of frequency, the quattro will accept multiple input frequencies. The output frequency is selectable in the ve.configure. Obviously this needs a bit of thought as to what you desire out of the sockets!

Hope that helps.

If in doubt, you can always post a screen shot or your config file.

Screen Shots of where to look

screenshot-2020-11-10-093325.png (40.0 KiB)

screenshot-2020-11-10-093414.png (76.0 KiB)

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sven-nurber commented · Nov 10, 2020 at 07:20 PM

Thanks. Yes, "AC low disconnect" was the setting causing the problem.

Sven

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jwfrary sven-nurber commented · Nov 11, 2020 at 09:17 AM

@Sven Nurber glad you got it sorted. Happy sailing (or steaming)

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Answer 1 · 2020-11-07T02:21:11Z

deverm answered · Nov 07, 2020 at 02:21 AM

Try Dynamic Current Limiting. If it is caused by startup surge this will probably fix it.

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Answer 2 · 2020-11-09T01:39:05Z

sven-nurber answered · Nov 09, 2020 at 01:39 AM

Thanks for reply deverm. AC-in-1 is shore power (grid) in this installation ( manual suggests generator for this input ) so enabling this setting would PowerAssist AC-in-1 ( lessen the draw on grid ) which isn't our problem. If I'm understanding the setting ? But perhaps you are suggesting making sure it isn't on. I'll take a peek.

Sven

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deverm commented · Nov 10, 2020 at 10:48 AM

First try switching off the UPS function, like described by @Jwfrary. If that does not work and the acceptable input range is okay as well, then do try to enable the dynamic current limiting function. This is not a Power Assist function.

It is caused by a short fall back to inverter mode which leads to a loss of power for 2 minutes on out2. For us we had to go to Dynamic Current Limiting to prevent this, even though the incoming power was from a fixed rpm Northern Lights diesel genset.

the -real- cause may lay deeper but while diagnosing it this setting will keep you going. For us the problem may be caused by wiring. I suspect even DC wiring too long leading to high AC ripple. We are building a new system around a lithium battery with short wiring so we’ll find out soon. In the mean time the setting I suggested fixed it 100% and I see no negative in trying it.

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jwfrary deverm commented · Nov 10, 2020 at 02:40 PM

@Sven Nurber what you can do, is pop into ve.configure and open the tab to the side. on later firmware's the problem 'figure' will appear red, when it is outside of spec. You can then see what's causing the issue of the drop outs. and adjust the voltage to suit.

As I said before its likely one or more of your parameters are set a little tight. - Likely the voltage.

Your right in that dynamic current limiting would lessen the draw on the shorepower for a short time, its function is to allow variable speed generator to pick up speed before applying more load. Power assist is as @DeVerm says a different function. Power assist functions where the load exceeds the shore power input value and boosts the output with the inverter.

Smaller fixed speed sets also have a similar problem, when a large load is applied the voltage drops for a short period and multi or quattro rejects the power. Trouble with using dynamic current limiting to solve this being the inverter and generator start to tussle with each other and the result is a period of unstable power after the load has been applied. This is often a result of a slightly ambitious rating on the part of the generator manufactures and a mis understanding of power factors. I.e most generator max stable outputs are 80% of what's on the label.

The UPS setting is to do with sensitivity to frequency changes mainly so if its that that's causing your drop outs then its worth turning it off. Compromise being a dirtier sine wave on the output potentially.

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