Can I see a report for alternator energy?

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edgargw22 asked Jan 31, '20

Can I see a report for alternator energy?

Can I run a report on alternator energy? Is there something via the Victron portal?

There are reports on grid (shore power) and/or generator usage, but I want more information about the alternator. The BMV-712 has wire leds specifically for the alternator.

Here's my equipment: two Victron 12,8 LFP batteries w/Bluetooth (each 300 Ah), Victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus Inverter/Charger, Victron Battery Monitor BMV-712, Victron Color Monitor w/Bluetooth dongle and Victron Smart Solar Charge Controller MPPT 150/85-Tr.

TIA...

battery charging BMV Battery Monitor

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Jon S commented · Feb 02, 2020 at 04:57 PM

Following

I have a similar setup without the BMV but with a lynx ion 1000 shunt. I have dual Balmar 220 amp alternators. Is there a way to show alternator input on the CCGX?

Thanks

Jon

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Answer 1 · 2020-02-05T17:13:53Z

Justin Cook answered · Feb 05, 2020 at 05:13 PM

@Edgargw22, how are you charging your system from the alternator? I don't see any battery-to-battery or alternator-to-battery equipment listed.

With the equipment you have listed, there is no way to report alternator current separately from other charge sources. It's worth noting that the BMV does not have "wire leads specifically for the alternator" as you say; there is one port on the shunt PCB that can be used to monitor start battery voltage only (if that port isn't being used by a temperature sensor or for midpoint voltage monitoring), but it does not connect to the alternator in any way, nor can it be used to measure current. If you have a B2B or A2B charger between your start battery/alternator respectively and your house bank, and the negative of the charger is properly connected to the "loads and chargers" side of the BMV shunt, the BMV will of course monitor the incoming current from that device as well as all your other charge sources, but the BMV cannot differentiate between charge sources - ie, it cannot tell you that "x" current is coming from your alternator while "y" current is coming from your solar controller. The BMV will show total input current, that is all.

If you were super keen on monitoring current from the start battery or alternator separately from your other charge sources (again, this would require an appropriate charger that is not listed in your equipment), you could add an additional BMV to your system and put the shunt on the NEG line from that source only, but you would not be able to see a readout of the second BMV directly on the main screen of the CCGX - you would have to go into the devices list, select the second BMV, and read its reported data from there. It would also be critical to still connect that charge source NEG to the "loads and chargers" side of your primary BMV shunt, as only your primary BMV would be reporting an accurate SOC of your house bank.

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edgargw22 commented · Feb 06, 2020 at 03:54 AM

Excellent information... Yes, I do have other sources for charging the system. I have both Onan 8k generator while we're dry camping and shore power when we're staying at an RV campground. Typically battery syncronization occurs while shore power is available.

As you can guess, I'm trouble shooting the engine altenator because we have some long travel days and that the batteries should be getting a much better charge then what's actually happening - however I need data to figure that out.

Below is a picture of my BMV-712 - please note ALT wire leads that are tied in with the merge solenoid. It seems to me that if the BMV-712 has wire leads for the altenator that we should have some corresponding data - but I don't see it either.

Thanks again - I appreciate your feedback. Any thoughts on what these leads are monitoring?

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Justin Cook ♦♦ edgargw22 commented · Feb 06, 2020 at 04:47 PM

@Edgargw22, did you inadvertently attach the incorrect photo? That is not a BMV-712... in fact, that's not a piece of Victron equipment at all. That's an AM Solar external BMS, and has nothing to do with your BMV battery monitor; if it's doing what I think it's doing, you're using it as the BMS for your Victron LFP batteries, which you technically should not be doing since it's not Victron-supported - the Victron LFP batteries should be connected to a Victron BMS.

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edgargw22 Justin Cook ♦♦ commented · Feb 09, 2020 at 05:37 PM

Ug – yes, that is a picture of AM Solar’s AMS. Until your post, I thought this AMS, BMV-712 & Color monitor were all part of one integrated system. After looking more carefully at my invoices and studying their web site, I realized that that AM Solar’s Lithium Battery Bank w/Monitor Kit, the Victron Color Control Monitor Kit and the Victron MPPT Control (BMV-712) Kit are separate and have different objectives. I now understand why the Victron Portal doesn’t have information specifically on alternator energy. While that information is being monitored by the AMS, there’s no mechanism to forward that information on to Victron for data collection. You’ll be happy to know that during this educational process, I found out that the original battery combiner solenoid had to be replaced with a Victron combiner (Cyrix-ct) that is more specifically designed to help charge lithium batteries with the alternator. Thanks for your comments.

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Justin Cook ♦♦ edgargw22 commented · Feb 10, 2020 at 05:35 PM

@Edgargw22, please note that for use with an LFP system you'll probably want the Cyrix-li-ct rather than the Cyrix-ct; they're functionally the same but the li-ct has adjusted voltage thresholds that accommodate the higher resting voltage of a lithium battery.

It's also worth noting that the Cyrix will only parallel-connect the LFP bank to the start bank while either side is under charging conditions; the Cyrix does not offer the intelligent charge profile that, for instance, a battery to battery charger like the Victron Orion-Tr Smart device offers. Depending on your system, this may not be an issue for you, but it's definitely something to consider... for best results from charging an LFP bank from the alternator, a B2B charger is highly recommended.

Also -just as a side note, to make sure that you're not being further misled by vague product listings- the BMV-712 is a very different device than the MPPT Control. They look similar because they use the same display chassis, but they serve very very different purposes. I'm not sure that it's relevant to you, I just noted that you mentioned them in the same line in your comment above, so I thought it best to clarify that before you purchased anything else :)

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Answer 2 · 2020-12-26T15:24:34Z

antiguasky answered · Dec 26, 2020 at 03:24 PM

I'm currently using a Batrium BMS to manage a 12.1 kWh 56V NMC pack that's charged by a 160A 58V alternator. The Batrium relay out trigger's the relay on a 48V Battery Protect to control the regulator's on/off state.

Now for a little Blue Sky thinking......

It would be nice to have a designed alternator solution to show it as a distinct DC source with the Victron environment. Within the current product range I've given some thought to possibly using one of the 250/? MPPT Solar Controllers between the alternator and the battery to track its performance on a Venus OS device. The relay out on the devices also looks like it could be a useful "second safety" to make sure the regulator disables the alternator before the controller disables charging.

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