Can i use the Multiplus to deliver surplus solar power to the grid without any extra pv inverter?

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thtruck asked Dec 1, '19

Can i use the Multiplus to deliver surplus solar power to the grid without any extra pv inverter?

In this explanation of @mvader (Victron Energy Staff) in this youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbpQzEZTElI is shown dat a solarpowered multiplus with batteries can also deliver back to the grid without any extra pv inverter.

My Victron situation is exactly the same. What do i have to setup within the Multiplus to deliver acpower back to the grid. And can this be done through the same 230V ac input cable i use for charging my batteries through the Multiplus when there is not enough solarpower.

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger

multiplus-as-pv-inverter-solarcharger.png (169.8 KiB)

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Murray van Graan answered · Dec 01, 2019 at 05:00 PM

If you have all the components in the picture, you’ll only need to load ESS assistant (possibly update firmware of the individual components) and off you go..

Read this: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ess:design-installation-manual

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thtruck commented · Dec 01, 2019 at 05:07 PM

So the ac delivery to the grid will go through the same ac-in cable?

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Dave van Dongen thtruck commented · Dec 01, 2019 at 08:17 PM

Yes, indeed it will go through the same cable.

Is that a good or a bad thing for your situation?

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thtruck Dave van Dongen commented · Dec 01, 2019 at 08:57 PM

That is great Dave and the best answer i could get. Thank you very much. All i have to do is install the ESS assistant because my firmware is up to date.

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2019-12-02T04:34:30Z

kai answered · Dec 02, 2019 at 04:34 AM

check out to what degree anti-islanding is required in your jurisdiction. While multiplus is capable of feeding back into the grid, whether its allowed to with its hardware is another question.

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Answer 2 · 2019-12-09T16:04:13Z

thtruck answered · Dec 09, 2019 at 04:04 PM

@Murray van Graan @kai

I have the multiplus 1 and i've heard it doesn't have a relay which switches off the multiplus when the grid fails so i do not have anti islanding. Fiddling with VE configure with a fake target from file from my own settings and with countrycode 'other' tells me that i stil have a 'safe (b)' option. Can you tell me if that is my failsafe for switching off the Multi and kills the feed in ac when the grid fails? @mvader (Victron Energy Staff)

Can you tell me something about it as well? Or do i need an expensive anti islanding device? Thanx in advance.

ve-conf-grid-lom-settings.png (22.2 KiB)

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 04:45 PM

Hi @THTruck

All Multi / Quattro's have an anti-islanding protection relay, but for some countries it is required to have a double relay at the input.

The Multiplus II series have a double relay on the input to comply with this.

The versions with one relay are still very safe, but to comply with regulations you might need an external anti islanding device.

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thtruck Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 04:50 PM

Thanks @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) Do you know if the multiplus single anti-islanding relay is enough for Dutch regulations?

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ thtruck commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 04:58 PM

Hi @THTruck

As you've already found out: no

you need to select the German grid code, and will get the warning that you need an external protection device.

For example in the UK you don't need that.

The multi will work just fine, but this doesn't comply with regulations, so please don't use it like that (I do use it for testing purposes myself)

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thtruck Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 05:12 PM

Ok @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) if it'll work safely in the UK it will be fine then. Thanks.

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Answer 3 · 2019-12-09T21:24:26Z

kai answered · Dec 09, 2019 at 09:24 PM

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:grid-codes-and-loss-of-mains-detection

Section 1 goes into a bit more detail.

Regardless of the detection setting, the multiplus is still constrained by its hardware. I don't know what country you're in - if you let us know, someone with installation experience in that country may be able to comment.

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thtruck commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 10:10 PM

Thanks Kai. Read below please.

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kai ♦ thtruck commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 10:23 PM

I just saw, I forgot to update page before responding - whoops.

Just a final comment for my part; I'll be a little more direct than Dan - different electrical jurisdictions have different views on the acceptable/tolerable probability of backfeed into a supposed dead electrical section; its intended to protect workers who depend on a known safe working system.

In part that's expressed by the need (or lack of) an additional relay. If you choose to install a system that's not consistent (specifically, objectively less safe) with the regulations/processes, there is legal exposure.

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thtruck kai ♦ commented · Dec 09, 2019 at 10:30 PM

Thanks again Kai. I will check/test what'll happen when there ain't no grid.

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