I see some have asked, but I too am in this position. This is how my inverter is mounted. I want to go full Victron with the MultiPlus II 3000va 12v. Thoughts?
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Justin Cook for the following reason: The question is answered, right answer was accepted
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MultiPlus II ceiling mount in RV pass through.
Don't mount it upside down like that, the heavy toroidal transformer will be fighting gravity and gravity always eventually wins. If you want to mount it in that location, build a shelf that drops down from the ceiling and mount the MultiPlus on the shelf, on its back, facing up.
** Quidquid (tu) facis, tuo periculo facis.** (Whatever you do, you do at your own risk).
@Edward Carbonari
Please follow @Justin Cook 's advice. The link posted assumes static mounting, not in an RV.
I always think the end user always has a lot of competing priorities for installations so eventually it is up to the user regarding installation, but once they have been given all of the options. It is their decision about how to balance those.
However I am interested to understand why you think gravity will not have the same effect on the Multiplus II transformer given the mounting position and manner of the mounting.
The transformer mountings will be subject to the same amount of force in vertical or horizontal mounting. It could be further demonstrated and it could be argued that given steel has a higher tensile strength than it's yield point, that in fact from a physics point of view horizontal mounting is preferable in regard to mount point failure minimisation.
On marine vessels the application of forces on the transformer mount points will act in almost all planes, this has the potential to create even more mount point stress failures than vehicle mounting of any description. I'm yet to personally encounter a transformer mounting failure in any orientation in any type of transport. Even a quick Google doesn't return anything for Victron transformer mounting failures.
My personal preference would be for vertical, but that would be for other reasons. I wouldn't give any weight to transformer mount failure in mounting decisions.
@NeptuneUK @Edward Carbonari the transformer of the MultiPlus-II is mounted to the back of the case using anchors through the epoxy-filled center (rendering discussions of shear strength rather moot). Thus, when hanging the unit from the ceiling with its face down, the transformer is hanging from its mounting points. Very bad idea. When mounted on its back facing up, the transformer is resting on its mounts. No problem. So if mounting at the ceiling is necessary, build a shelf that drops down, mount the unit on its back on the shelf.
My admonishment to never hang it upside down is not only from experience as well as a basic grasp of physics, but also as someone who ran an authorized Victron Service Centre for several years and saw the effect of people doing dumb things, suffering the consequences, and then being outraged that the damage caused was not only not repairable (in the case of transformer mount failure due to improper mounting of the unit), but not warrantable either.
On one hand I'm not opposed to "understand the risks and do as you will"... as long as one takes full responsibility for one's own actions and understands that when something fails due to improper installation, there will be no warranty for the failure; in the US, at least, there is a pervasive reluctance to accept responsibility for the consequences of one's own actions and thus I tend to be firm in my advice and do not encourage others to do things that are a bad idea, regardless of their 'competing priorities'.
Do it correctly, or do not do it.
I understand what you saying, but it's not evidenced. I can't find a single report, image or video of a transformer mounting failure due to horizontal vehicle mounting, despite reams of posts across numerous forums by people who have mounted MP's that way. People love a failure pic or video and I can't seem to find one.
The through epoxy rods are also capped with large diameter washer/nuts. If the epoxy is the weak point then horizontal places the forces over a wider surface area (the washers). It seems that vertical placement leaves the epoxy prone to be 'sliced' through by the mounting rods via the up & down forces exerted in that configuration. Much like cutting butter with the flat edge, near impossible or the blade edge, easy.
Under UK and EU law items must be fit for purpose. Victron make clear that their products are for a multitude of use cases, including vehicle and marine.
If the Multiplus II isn't up to the rigors of vehicle mounting horizontally then the manual should state "This product MUST not be mounted horizontally in motor vehicles or marine craft" As far as I can see it does not.
With regard to backside down mounting. It simply doesn't make sense.
The number of upward / downward motions is identical regardless of Multiplus II face up / face down orientation, So how does the mount know which direction of travel is which?
Could you evidence the failures you mention? Maybe images taken at the time from horizontally mounted transformer mount failures. I'm interested to see how the failures manifest themselves.
It would also appear there may be a market for a modified MultiplusII given the number of questions about horizontal mounting in various forums. It seems to me the Multiplus II in your service experience isn't at all suited to use in vehicle or marine environments if horizontal mounting is the only option.
The following video from Victron shows the distribution chain, transportation and warehousing. Funny that the Multiplus II's in this video are horizontal on their shipping pallets when sent on their 9000Km+ journey from india to the Netherlands and from the Netherlands across europe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgJLDFc0pzE
I'm also assuming from your experience, given the MP2 is fairly recent only 5 years so still in warranty, was based on the MP which had it's 2 transformer coils mounted from the center of the product (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPfUn5ki7OM)
In marine environments where space can be at an absolute premium, there is good reason to not mount on floors, as generally that's where all the water ends up! and where you stand. Even walls can run with water, a ceiling however......
Victron also makes clear the correct mounting of the unit. And yet again, I have no issue with horizontal. I have issue with upside down. Your assumptions of my experience are faulty.
I'm not here to argue (and have no interest in, since it's entirely irrelevant to me) EU/UK law or any of that.
I am here to say, do not mount the unit upside down, and have said it, and have nothing further to say.
There's a big difference in forces between a static building and an RV.
@Justin Cook will be speaking from experience, not theory.
shear strength is approximately 60% of the minimum tensile strength
The Victron MPII has active cooling, so horizontal mounting is not ideal so you would need to take in to account all the factors of your installation. That said this post answered by @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) may help you decide one way or the other.
Any other input?
Sorry must I forgotten to paste it, but a quick search involving Guy will bring it up: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/11774/mounting-mppt-and-multiplus.html
@Edward Carbonari Just to clarify is your installation in a boat? Given what appears to be a curved wall surface in your image, I have assumed marine install?
Have you had the boat long?
Have you ever had any issues with the horizontal mounting of the Xantrex?
@NeptuneUK RV or camper not Boat. Xantrex works no issue. In fact in the RV/camper world this is most common mount position and location. Hence my question as many would switch to Victron for all the functionality and performance with the Cerbo etc.
Xantrex is a high-frequency inverter that doesn't have the 30+ pound transformer. Different physics.
Hi @Edward Carbonari I've given this some thought myself. I didn't realise that Victrons kit needed to be treated so much like a princess. The marketing and videos give the impression it's robust. But those with first hand experience of servicing the kit paint a different picture. I've learned on this forum, there seem to be a lot of faults unless it gets kid gloves.
Some kit doesn't seem to be appropriate for the market for which it is advertised. I just wish there was a bit more honesty / signposting in that regard.
I personally like the functionality of some of the Victron kit and the advantages it can bring. Yes the Cerbo and VRM monitoring are stand out.
I replaced all the kit in my personal marine installation with Victron, and for my son too, but I'm thinking now I made a mistake maybe. We may well revert to Sterling, before I'm left in a sticky situation. I need reliability and robustness above all else.
But it's becoming clear that it seems most of the kit is purely best suited for static Terra-firma installations.
I've always been a fan of Sterling Power, it's robust, reliable and whenever I've had questions I can phone them. The manual clearly says of their Combi inverter
"3) Orientation of the unit is not critical."
I might be inclined to say, given the issues highlighted here that you might be best served in the long run sticking with Xantrex, there must be a reason why it's the standout choice in the US RV arena?
I totally get the mount position and advantages that can offer in your (vehicle ) and my (marine) environments.
I in fact cancelled a Victron order for 2 utility vehicle installs first thing this morning, and submitted it to Sterling. The crews wouldn't need or use the Cerbo functionality, but they do need robustness and reliability.
I was also going to install Victron (with a cerbo for remote monitoring mainly) into my own diving truck (I dive, not the truck). But I can do the same with Sterling a SBC and Lorawan.
I really hope you are able to make the decision that best suits you and your needs. Maybe a chat over some beers with other RVers aboout the pro's and cons of Xantrex and Victron might help, and if nothing else it's a great evening!
Strange that someone would interpret "please install properly and with respect to basic physics" to mean "treat like a princess" while also routinely commenting on getting the courts involved in everything at the drop of a hat. Good luck in your travels, it must be an awfully bumpy ride out there.
I appreciate all the info. And the Xantrex has done it's job and no issues. I just want the Victron integration and ability (primary reason) to turn on and off the inverter via software control. I think there is a large market (maybe I am wrong) in the RV word for Victron. From the factory my camper came with Victron Shunt and MPPT controller, just not the inverter.....
