URGENT : VE Bus Error 5 and VE Bus Error 18 - I cant take it anymore!

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levistoth asked Feb 6, '24

URGENT : VE Bus Error 5 and VE Bus Error 18 - I cant take it anymore!

Hi All,

I NEED HELP!

I am dealing with this issue since 4 months, please some-one help me, I posted here 2 threads, I emailed Victron, I talked with the Dealer, post on Reddit and nothing.

[@Victron staff]

I have an installation with the following :

9 x Victron 15 kVA Quattro ( 3 inverters / phase)

3 x Fronius 25 kW on the AC output 1

80 x Pylontech US2000C

I get VE Bus Error 5 and VE Bus Error 18, the wiring is correct, no issue on that, the settings are correct Victron on ESS as suggested by Victron and Fronius are setted up with MG50 and control via modbus.

I get the error only when there is high sun and we have production over 25-30 kW from the Fronius inverters, if the weather is not ok then the system is working fine without any issue, this also confirms that there is not problem on the wiring.

PS never had an issue during the night-time.

As I see, the problem is that the Fronius inverter is still producing to much even if the Victrons tell them to stop and that how there is a high voltage on the AC side, I have checked the graphs whenever the victron stops due to these errors, the voltage is around 240 V - 243 V, which should not be an issue. The Frequency is around 51 Hz.

what can I do to eliminate the issue, because now it`s really annoying, our client is calling us daily that the system is not woring, just today the system stopped working for 9 times and had to restart it.

As you will se below, the error comes from 11 o clok till 15:30 exactly when there is the biggest sun.

Please help me with this!

VE.Bus

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Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented · Feb 06 at 07:56 PM

Please add some pictures of the installation and a schematic.
How did you distributed the DC power?

We had a similar issue in a large system during high loads and the problem was a not optimal DC wiring.

80x US2000!?
For such a system I would have used another battery type maybe BYD LVL 15.4.

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levistoth Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented · Feb 07 at 07:50 AM

Yes, tought on that. We remade the total DC and AC cabling and still the same thing.

we have the following connections :

80 x us 2000 C

From each group of 8 inverters we have a pair of (+) and (-) cable which is connected to a DC panel on a + and - bus bar, I would like to mention that all DC cables from the batteries to this panel are exactly 4 meters long, we are using the generic AWG cable provided by pylontech.

From the Busbar we have exactly 4 meter of cables for each inverter of 150 ccm copper cable. (The busbar is equipped with DC fuses for 1200 A) - but the maximum possible charge or discharge is limited to 1000 A.

It`s an Eu financed project, we had to stick with these batteries....

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Alexandra ♦ levistoth commented · Feb 07 at 08:01 AM

With 9 x 15kva the possibility of a discharge being 2800A is more likely.

If you are only expecting a 1000A discharge why go so big on the inverter side? Could be half the system?

If it was derating sure to temperature an air con would have been cheaper and less complicated?

If PV for loads and charging, then DC charging and AC coupled combo would be better and also less complex.

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levistoth Alexandra ♦ commented · Feb 07 at 01:47 PM

Totally agree , the idea of 9 x Victron`s is coming from 80 x US 2000C, where the max DCL is 2000 A.

Since the project is financed by EU we went for maximum, since probaly in the future might be more consumers.

Also We have calculated that at a medium irradiance of 50% we could charge the batteries from 30 % to 80% almoust every day

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2024-02-06T17:46:12Z

Alexandra answered · Feb 06 at 05:46 PM

@levistoth

Are you off-grid?

If the fronius are not responding then something is a bit off there maybe review the settings there.

Is the firmware on the fronius up to date?

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levistoth commented · Feb 06 at 05:50 PM

we are ESS with Grid connected and zero export. I have tried to export 100 W, but did not helped.

Yes the Fronius Datamanager is up to date and all the inverters running the latest firmware.

On the Victron I run the 506 Firmware, tomorrow will try with 508 version which appeared currently.

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Alexandra ♦ levistoth commented · Feb 06 at 06:49 PM

And the setting on the fronius?

Would you mind sharing those?

The fronius like to produce equally over all phases. Do you have unbalanced phases?

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levistoth Alexandra ♦ commented · Feb 07 at 07:54 AM

The fronius are in the following way :

1 x Master and 2 Slave, the master haves the datamanager and the slaves are without, they are linked on sunspec.

We have setted on all 3 inverters the MG50

Also added the control via modbus and we placed that the first thing to listen by the inverter is to be modbus.

also setted that the fronius inverters should work under the voltage limits of the Victrons with around 2 V ( 193 low limit and 253 V high limit)

As for the consumption, the biggest part of consumption is equal on each phase, but we have some monophase consumers as well, but there is never more than 3-4 kw difference between phases.

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Alexandra ♦ levistoth commented · Feb 07 at 07:58 AM

There are bunch more settings in the dno editor that needs to be done those are the ones I was interested in.

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levistoth Alexandra ♦ commented · Feb 07 at 01:43 PM

totally True , we have the following settings in the DNO Editor :

Dynamic power reduction : No limit

Controllin priority : 1 Modbus, 2 Dynamic, 3 Ripple

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Alexandra ♦ levistoth commented · Feb 08 at 08:04 PM

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Energy_Storage_System/en/configuration.html#UUID-42f56b22-76b3-0c69-57c2-3e54b2e0df4e

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Answer 2 · 2024-02-06T22:13:51Z

kevgermany answered · Feb 06 at 10:13 PM

@levistoth I've passed this on to Victron.

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Answer 3 · 2024-02-07T13:17:37Z

levistoth answered · Feb 07 at 01:17 PM

As an update - starnge thing whats happening :

the consumption is bouncing even back to 0, but in reality it`s not the case, it`s a constant consumption.

This thing happens only when we are chargong the battery, if i stop charging the battery the consumption is ok again.

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Alexandra ♦ commented · Feb 08 at 07:57 PM

@levistoth

I have seen issues like that when the network the fronius and GX are connected to is having addressing or other issues.

How are they connected together? For communication that is.

We have a network solution specifically for Victron with Fronius set ups because comms over WiFi can be an issue on some routers.

In your original post the not responding to ramp down commands would also point to networking problems (if they are not config).

I would start there and make a dedicated network for the Victron&Fronius combo so it is self contained, that then connects to the main network.

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Answer 4 · 2024-02-08T11:36:43Z

mmh answered · Feb 08 at 11:36 AM

Hi @levistoth

I struggled with a similar issue on a system with 6x15 kVA Quattro and 8x 15kW fronius.

What we found is that the grid connection was too small. These issues did not recur after upgrading. 300m 3-phase overhead line to 3x100mm2 aluminum (from 3x16 mm!)

How are you connected to the transformer and what is the distance?

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Answer 5 · 2024-02-11T14:55:15Z

Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Feb 11 at 02:55 PM

@levistoth someone from Darcom Energy will contact you tomorrow, I have spoken with them now. They will keep me posted.
Lucian

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Answer 6 · 2024-02-12T10:49:16Z

Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Feb 12 at 10:49 AM

@levistoth The system is not correctly designed, you are using paralleled MP-II 15K and that is not allowed.

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Alex Pescaru commented · Feb 12 at 11:35 AM

Hi @Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff)

He said he has Quattro ...

And from Quattro datasheet, it can be paralleled...

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Alex Pescaru commented · Feb 12 at 11:40 AM

Yes, but it was not like that :)

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levistoth Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Feb 12 at 03:19 PM

Indeed we have the MP 2 - what is weird, we have 2 installation just like this, one of them is working without any issue the other one haves some issues, what now seems that the frimware 508 resolved, since the update we did not recived any Ve bus Errors just like before.

However Victron says that the MP2 is not working in parallel, we could make the installation and we did not had any programing limitations. (configured normally and working from the begining, no issue over the night-time or when the weather is not the best)

Do we know why it`s considered as a not working solution, which are the HW limitations over this ? Is there a risk of any hardware damage ?

In the mean-time I had some calls with Darcom (thanks @Lucian Popescu (Victron) Energy Staff) and the issue seems to come from the low quality grid and when the Fronius inverters would produce to much energy and suddenly the grid stops, we have a high Power and seems that the fronius inverters recive the information to late to reduce the power output.

I am not aware to change the MP2 with Quattros, but can you confirm if we do so, we are not going to have the same issue after ?

PS: The second installation is the same, and have all the same components same configuration, even the same consumers, 2 identical buildings. Here the grid is much more stable and the system is working without any issue.

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ levistoth commented · Feb 12 at 08:10 PM

@levistoth, all those installations are not ok, and you should modify them, otherwise those systems are creating issues (as you already saw). Also, these products incorrectly installed are not covered by warranty.

Then, when you are posting an issue here, make sure you are correctly describing the system. It is strange that you, as installer of that system, said that there are Quattros instead of MP-II.

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levistoth Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Feb 12 at 08:42 PM

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) well, for this order we went with another dealer, we asked for Quattros, but they were not avilable, they recomended mp 2 instead amd we did not checked (the datasheet then did not specified that the 15 kw mp is not ok in paralel, just the 8 and 10)

Whats strange, firstly we got in touch with them and they did not find any problem in this, they also had acces in vrm, also the solution was proposed by them.

It was just my bad memory that i mentioned quattros, since I was asking for quattros in the begining.

Bad situation, we have to change them.

The issue I mentioned above when there is extra power and there is no grid, will the error 5 and 18 will still persist with the quattros as well?

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ levistoth commented · Feb 12 at 08:47 PM

That issue can have multiple causes, but not on a correct installation.

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Matthias Lange - DE ♦ levistoth commented · Feb 12 at 08:48 PM

Must be an older datasheet.

This is the one directly from Victron:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-II-inverter-charger-EN.pdf

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented · Feb 12 at 08:52 PM

That datasheet was probably from before the 15K was released and that's why 15K it's not mention in there

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