EVCS automatic switching between 1p and 3p

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question

luphi asked Nov 17, '23

EVCS automatic switching between 1p and 3p

In https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/215013/single-phase-charging-on-three-phase-setup.html

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) describes a not officially supported method to make that work with the existing EVCS models. On the hardware side, the 4p contactor has to be replaced by 2x2p contactors. 1st contactor for P1 and N, 2nd contactor for P2 and P3. The 2nd contactor will be switched by the 2nd relay, which is not in use in the original setup.

These contactors might work: https://www.se.com/de/de/product/A9C20842/installationssch%C3%BCtz-ict-40a-2s-220-240v-50hz/ They are a bit wider, but should fit. Probably the DIN rail needs to be extended.

On software side, the modbus register 5056 hat to be set to 2

But before I'm going to invest in the contactors (btw, street prices are far below the list price), I wanted to play with the modbus register, to see, how the EVCS behaves. The documentation says, range is 0-2 and default is 1. But when I read it, the value is 65535 and I'm not able to change it.

$ mbpoll -1 -0 -a1 -r5055 -c2 evcs
mbpoll 1.0-0 - FieldTalk(tm) Modbus(R) Master Simulator
Copyright © 2015-2019 Pascal JEAN, https://github.com/epsilonrt/mbpoll
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type 'mbpoll -w' for details.

Protocol configuration: Modbus TCP
Slave configuration...: address = [1]
                        start reference = 5055, count = 2
Communication.........: 172.23.1.15, port 502, t/o 1.00 s, poll rate 1000 ms
Data type.............: 16-bit register, output (holding) register table

-- Polling slave 1...
[5055]:     65535 (-1)
[5056]:     65535 (-1)

Can please anyone confirm or proof me wrong.

Cheers... luphi

evcs

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hbraak answered · May 26 at 08:32 PM

technical it seems to be the same inside

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2023-11-17T18:23:12Z

Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Nov 17, 2023 at 06:23 PM

You can change it

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Answer 2 · 2023-11-18T11:43:23Z

luphi answered · Nov 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM

Hello @Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff), thank you (again) for your quick response, but I can't change it. When I try, it says "Written 1 references" but when I poll again the value stays unchanged.

By the way, other registers like 5017 (max current) are working fine.

$ mbpoll -0 -1 -a1 -r5056 evcs 2
mbpoll 1.0-0 - FieldTalk(tm) Modbus(R) Master Simulator
Copyright © 2015-2019 Pascal JEAN, https://github.com/epsilonrt/mbpoll
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type 'mbpoll -w' for details.

Protocol configuration: Modbus TCP
Slave configuration...: address = [1]
                        start reference = 5056, count = 1
Communication.........: evcs, port 502, t/o 1.00 s, poll rate 1000 ms
Data type.............: 16-bit register, output (holding) register table

Written 1 references.

$ mbpoll -0 -1 -a1 -r5055 -c5 evcs
mbpoll 1.0-0 - FieldTalk(tm) Modbus(R) Master Simulator
Copyright © 2015-2019 Pascal JEAN, https://github.com/epsilonrt/mbpoll
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type 'mbpoll -w' for details.

Protocol configuration: Modbus TCP
Slave configuration...: address = [1]
                        start reference = 5055, count = 5
Communication.........: evcs, port 502, t/o 1.00 s, poll rate 1000 ms
Data type.............: 16-bit register, output (holding) register table

-- Polling slave 1...
[5055]: 65535 (-1)
[5056]: 65535 (-1)
[5057]: 65535 (-1)
[5058]: 65535 (-1)
[5059]: 65535 (-1)

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Answer 3 · 2023-11-22T16:53:59Z

luphi answered · Nov 22, 2023 at 04:53 PM

nobody with any ideas? Any help is really appreciated.

Cheers... luphi

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Nov 22, 2023 at 05:56 PM

It should work, I have just tested

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luphi Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Nov 23, 2023 at 07:22 AM

Thank you for double checking. So, what am I doing wrong? Do you use a different modbus tool to change them? Since I can change other registers, I don't believe, it's a tool issue. Have you had the same default values 65535? I only have these values for the 5 registers, listed above.

Sorry for all the questions, but still can't make it work.

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Answer 4 · 2023-11-23T07:46:30Z

Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Nov 23, 2023 at 07:46 AM

can you give me the vrm portal ID?

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luphi commented · Nov 23, 2023 at 08:06 AM

send by email

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Answer 5 · 2023-11-23T17:10:38Z

luphi answered · Nov 23, 2023 at 05:10 PM

Hello Lucian, thank you for your help. it's working now.

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Answer 6 · 2023-12-10T06:00:16Z

kds answered · Dec 10, 2023 at 06:00 AM

Did you install the contactors finally ?

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Answer 7 · 2023-12-10T11:05:25Z

luphi answered · Dec 10, 2023 at 11:05 AM

Yes, I did. In theory everything should work. I'm really exited to test it out. Unfortunately the car is not yet delivered. The dealer promised he will get it next week....

What I was missing, was modbus register 5100, which enables/disables phase switching. Setting it to 1 makes the registers 5055-5059 changeable.

From hardware perspective, I was indeed going for the contactors mentioned above. (less than 40€ per contactor including shipping in Germany). I had a DIN rail laying around, so I replaced it too, to fit the size of the new contactors.

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jochenku commented · Feb 16 at 04:50 AM

Thank you for the heads-up on this modification, I'm strongly interested in doing it, too, now that solar excess is slowly becoming available again.

Might you be willing to share the exact specifications or even a link to the newly installed contactors/relays? That would be great...

Thanks a ton and best regards,

Jochen

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Answer 8 · 2024-02-14T18:56:49Z

hbraak answered · Feb 14 at 06:56 PM

I impleteted the phase switching for the EVCS NS and made a tiny documentation. Comments are appreciated!

BR

Heiko

EVCS_Phasenumschaltung.pdf

evcs-phasenumschaltung.pdf (1.2 MiB)

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Feb 14 at 08:08 PM

Nice :)

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kudos50 commented · Feb 15 at 07:51 AM

Very nice ! Was planning on opening it up soonish to figure things out. Having this is way better :-)

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ kudos50 commented · Feb 15 at 07:58 AM

Just one mention, remember that it is a feature still in beta. And it is not supported yet

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hias0815 commented · Apr 17 at 11:37 AM

Any updates/Results of testing with enough sun?

Is it working as expected?

Regards

Matthias

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chinook hias0815 commented · Jun 22 at 08:00 PM

Hi hias0815,

I have the first Version of the EVCS, with the actual Software installed. I have 6-9kW from 7am to 2pm and I have never seen switching the System it self from 1 to 3 phase. (Auto Mode 1/3ph, Manual Mode 3ph). When i start in Manual Mode and switch then to Automatic Mode, sometimes automatic mode is running 3ph. Maybe I have to change the parameters, like in the comments below, because my BMW i3 is only charging with max. 16A per phase.

What i also see, if the EVCS is active, the DVCC max. charging current is not regarded by my System. When my Symo Converter has more Solar Power available than the EVCS is consuming in 1ph mode, all the MPPT450/200 power is charging the battery. This happens only if the EVCS is active. When my car is not connected Battery charging is limited to the DVCC max. current.

Regards

Korbinian

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Answer 9 · 2024-02-15T07:04:38Z

19andy89 answered · Feb 15 at 07:04 AM

Hello

That's good news

Does the switching of the phases work automatically?

or does the switchover have to be done via Modbus?

Does the car also accept the switch?

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Answer 10 · 2024-02-15T19:48:24Z

hbraak answered · Feb 15 at 07:48 PM

Up to now, I tested only the manual mode.

When I switch the Manual Mode via Modbus 5055 from 1 to 0(three phase) during charging the EVCS stops charging, switches to 3-Phase an starts again within a couple of seconds (Parameter 5101 might be the corresponding).

Sun is missing...also next days here in cologne. Testing the auto mode seems to take a while.

May be Lucian can give an explanation to the parameter 5057 - 59 in the Modbus TCP Register List?

Best Regards

Heiko

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webblaster commented · Apr 13 at 08:44 AM

Hello Heiko,

any further experience with the mod?

Greetings from Lindenthal

Felix

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hbraak webblaster commented · Apr 28 at 06:38 PM

works pretty good, parameters I attached below the last post.

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Answer 11 · 2024-02-16T06:14:33Z

luphi answered · Feb 16 at 06:14 AM

they build the switching hysteresis, I assume:

- switching from 1p to 3p if surplus >(5057)W for (5059)s

- switching from 3p to 1p if surplus <(5058)W for (5059)s

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hbraak commented · Feb 16 at 12:34 PM

Thanks!

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Answer 12 · 2024-04-24T15:04:57Z

luphi answered · Apr 24 at 03:04 PM

To be honest, I'm not sure, if it is really correct, what I wrote.

I configured 5059 to 10s and 5057 to 4500W. The EVCS is charging since a couple of minutes now with 16A@1p and ~2kW are send to the grid, but it's not switching to 3p :-(

My assumption was, that the EVCS sums up the current charge current + the energy send to the grid and if that is bigger than the value of register 5057, it would switch to 3p. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. Does it really requires 4500W (4800W by default) in addition to the ~3600W 1p charging to switch to 3p?

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) would you mind to clue us up.

Cheers, luphi

1713971166136.png (122.5 KiB)

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Answer 13 · 2024-04-28T18:26:33Z

hbraak answered · Apr 28 at 06:26 PM

Here are my parameters for phase switching. Ich works pretty good. My E-UP only can charge via two phases.

BR

Heiko

screenshot-2024-04-28-202254.png (39.3 KiB)

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luphi commented · Apr 29 at 12:26 PM

Thanks for sharing.

Does that mean, I should multiply your values by 1.5 ?

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hbraak luphi commented · May 07 at 08:42 PM

Hi, it depends on your hardwaresetting. What is your max. current per phase? And what is your EV capable to charge, on how many phases? Can you provide some more info?

BR Heiko

From your previous post is looks like you have max current of 16A per phase (take care of your circuit breaker!) So if your EVCS should switch to 3 Phase mode, you have to take a value for 5057 below 3800W.

If your EV charges at 3 Phases the minimum Power would be 6A * 240V * 3 = 4320W or 2880W for 2 Phases. In the first case I don't know how the set the 5058 parameter, that it would make sense, only if you have a setup for 32A max... For the second case as it is for my e-up the 5058 should be 3800W>(5058)W>2880W. I took 3200.

May be this helps.

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luphi hbraak commented · May 08 at 09:32 AM

cables and breaker cover 32A

The car (EV6) can charge up to 16A at 1p or 3p, means I have a gap between ~3700W (16A@1p) and ~4200W (6A@3p).

Cheers, luphi

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hbraak luphi commented · May 08 at 12:10 PM

I think so...

but, considering this information:

https://ev-database.org/de/pkw/1471/Kia-EV6-GT#charge-table

It should be possible to go to 32 A for the vehicle. If your cables to the WB ist capable to transport 32A and your circuit breaker is for 32A, then you can got to 32A with the EVCS an your gap should disappear.

BR

Heiko

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1715170005836.png (144.6 KiB)

chinook hbraak commented · Jun 22 at 09:10 PM

Hi hbraak,

thank's for your great description and explanations. I updated my parameters now and i will test it the next day's (my car is limited to 16A/ph, i set 5057 to 3700W and 5058 to 3500W). What i don't understand, why are these parameters depending on the vehicle charging power and not on the available solar power?

Do you have an idea?

Regards

Korbinian

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Answer 14 · 2024-05-24T14:38:56Z

jonaspv answered · May 24 at 02:38 PM

The Discription for modify the charger is for the new generation without a display, does it also work with old Version, whitch has the display?

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Answer 15 · 2024-06-19T16:32:18Z

jochenku answered · Jun 19 at 04:32 PM

Hi everyone!

I just completed the modification of my EVCS according to the 'instructions' of @hbraak in this topic. Thanks a ton!

At first glance everything is looking good and after changing ModBus register 5100 fro 0 to 1 I see the modified SETTINGS menu where it is possible to preselect 1P/3P for MANUAL and AUTO mode.

But how does SCHEDULED mode behave? 1P? 3P? Any parameters that i overlooked?

Best regards, Jochen

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Answer 16 · 2024-06-21T04:07:11Z

jochenku answered · Jun 21 at 04:07 AM

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) Maybe any ideas how SCHEDULED mode works? 1P or 3P?

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 21 at 07:14 PM

Hi, no, the 1P/3P mode is not supported, was added just for tests, in preparation for EVCS V2

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jochenku Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 22 at 04:21 AM

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff)

Thanks for the quick reply but obviously my question was not clear enough. Another try:

With the second relais installed and register 5100 set to '1' will the EVCS charge with 3,7kW (1P) or with 11kW (3P) when scheduled mode is selected and 16A is set in the active scene?

Thanks and best regards, Jochen

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jochenku jochenku commented · Jun 28 at 07:33 AM

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff)

May I kindly push this question again, it's been a couple of days...

The reason for my insistence is that I cannot really test it out during the summer when I use only PV surplus power to charge the EV.

During the winter I use scheduled charging 3P/11kW with flexible energy prices during the night and depending on if after this modification the EVCS scheduled mode uses 1P or 3P or both I may need to work on a software solution in order to guarantee 3P charging during the night.

Thank you...

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ jochenku commented · Jun 28 at 08:16 AM

Hi, sorry, but 3P/1P is not yet a supported feature. SO I can't give you any response about it. But there are few users here using that feature, maybe they can give you some help.

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jochenku Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 28 at 08:56 AM

Sorry, I thought that would be a rather easy question. But no problem, I will try it myself and report back...

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ jochenku commented · Jun 28 at 09:12 AM

It's an easy one indeed, but once I start doing this, I'll have to do it again and again. I hope you understand, sorry!

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jochenku Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 02 at 04:17 AM

In the meantime I found the answer to my question: scheduled mode with 16A as charging current did only charge using 1P last night. :-(

Unfortunately that is quite disappointing, as I use scheduled mode to charge the EV quickly during the night with 11 kW using low energy prices.

@Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) Is this intentional? This way the whole modification loses it's appeal for me...

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Lucian Popescu (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ jochenku commented · Jul 02 at 07:43 AM

The logic for 1p/3p switching will be checked and updated when this will become a supported feature. For now, it's just a test in preparation for the next hardware revision.

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ahtih jochenku commented · Jul 02 at 10:22 AM

I have Auto mode running as 1p/3p and Manual/Scheduled 3p just fine.

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jochenku ahtih commented · Jul 03 at 04:15 AM

Thank you @AhtiH that is the solution! After changing the "Manual mode phase" selection from 1Phase to 3Phase the scheduled charge worked at 11 kW last night.

That means the labeling in the menu is not clear enough, as the selector for MANUAL mode also controls SCHEDULED mode.

So I kindly suggest to rename it accordingly, eg. "Manual / scheduled mode phase". Would have saved me quite some time / hassle.

And a bit disappointing that Lucian was unable to give that information despite the fact that I've asking multiple times which parameter controls the number of phases the scheduled mode uses.

Anyway, problem solved in 'community style'...

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Answer 17 · 2024-06-25T14:51:45Z

Today I had the chance to observe and test the phase switching for the first time. Good news is it works, but...

I started today's test with a current limit of 16A and parameters #5057 = 4400 and #5058 = 3500. The charger remained at 3.6kW 1P for appr. 30 minutes. As soon as I changed #5057 = 3400 (and #5058 = 3200) it switched to 3P right away (appr. 11:45)...

So let's first agree how the control algorithm seems to works. The parameters 5057 / 5058 are not solar excess, but the actual EV charging power that the EV uses at the moment to charge the EV.

So how does AUTO mode calcualte the charging power used? Let's see the EVCS manual, section 2.2 Features (my markup):

So AUTO mode will try to keep feed-in at 0, of course within it's limits (min - max charging current). That means, there might be a small issue for

installations which only provide a limited amount of solar excess during the preferred charging times either because other consumers require power during charging or because solar power itself is limited to an effective power below appr. 4.5 - 5.0 kW.

and / or
installations that are limited to a max charging current of 16A (due to regulatory, power management, charging cable or other reasons).

Because 16A single phase (considering 230V as reference voltage) equals 3.68 kW charging power and because the minimum current is set at 6A either 1P or 3P (per most EV's specification) this means for three phase operation the minimum power will be 4.14 kW.

So there is a gap between 3.68 kW (max single phase) and 4.14 kW (min three phase). But in order to achieve (and mantain!) a switchover from 1P to 3P the charger would have to reach >= 4.14 kW power which it will never do 1P with a 16A limit.

Setting the limit to 18A (regulatory issues aside and proper wiring and fusing assumed) would result in a gap of 0W as 18A * 230V = 3 * 6A * 230V = 4.14 kW. This might work but will be far from ideal because there is no room for any kind of hysteresis.

My understanding as of now is, that in order to benefit from the AUTO phase switching

the car has to be able to charge single phase with minimum min 20A (for switch to 1P to 3P, 2P is better but rare as layed out further above)
the EV charging cable must be able to allow min 20A
wiring and fusing must be compatible with 20A ops.

So for the sake of science ;-) I will swap my EVCS main fuse from 16A to 20A, set the current limit to 20A and the parameters 5057 to 4600 an 5058 to 4200. This should give the EVCS 400W to play with.

I will report back...

Best regards, Jochen

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