Quattro I - Generator Minimum Power Requirements at AC-IN2 ?

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Rudolf Dietz asked Sep 17, '23

Quattro I - Generator Minimum Power Requirements at AC-IN2 ?

Are there any specified Minimum Power Requirements for the attached 3-ph generator on AC-In2 mains of a 3-phase Quattro-I 10kVA configuration?

I did not find any answer in the Victron documentation.

My current Victron configuration:

Off-Grid system
3-ph Quattro 10kVA
20 kWh Victron smart Battery
LYNX smart BMS
20kWp solar panel DC coupled with Victron RS solar inverters
H2-generator and fuel cell system attached to AC-IN1 (3-phase 6kW max. output power) from HPS GmbH with its own solar panel system, H2-storage for reconverting H2 to 1536 kWh electric power through fuel cell

My next step:

I need to add now a power generator to AC-In2 in order to prevent a black out if the hydrogen power system on AC-In1 will fail or H2-battery will run empty before winter time ends

So I need to know if there is a minimum power requirement specified, the 3 Quattro 10kVA units will need on their AC-IN2 input in order to start charging my battery and supplying my power consumption of the building which is about 1 kW in average.

I think about purchasing a (diesel-)generator with 5-7 kW output power range.

Regards RudiD

quattro 10kva

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Answer 1 · 2023-09-17T11:04:36Z

Matthias Lange - DE answered · Sep 17, 2023 at 11:04 AM

With the 10kVA Quattro the minimal input current limit with power assist is 10.5A.
At 230V around 2400W for each Quattro!
So your System will pull up to 7.2kW from the generator.
To not run the generator at full load for to long it should have a bit more power.
I think you would need a 9-10kW generator.

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Rudolf Dietz commented · Sep 17, 2023 at 05:29 PM

Hello Matthias,

thank you for your quick response.

I am sure we have a misunderstanding. I am not asking for the input current limitation.
These options for setting up the input current limitation are described precisely in the Victron documentation.

My question in other words: Can I attach any size of generator power to the AC-In-1 or AC-IN-2 inputs of a 3-ph Quattro 48V/10kVA configuration ?

Are there any minimum power requirements to consider for attached generators ?

Can I use f.e. a 6kW generator, started remotely by CerboGX generator start/stop option?

RudiD

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Matthias Lange - DE ♦ Rudolf Dietz commented · Sep 17, 2023 at 05:52 PM

The input current limit is exactly what you need to choose the size of the generator.

The minimum what the generator should be able to deliver is 7,2kW (10,5A on each phase).

If you start the generator the Quattros are starting to charge the battery and all AC loads are supplied by the generator. The input current limit will prevent the generator from overloading but the minimum current you can set is 10,5A.

Take a look at this:
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Technical-Information-Achieving-the-impossible-EN.pdf
This describes how PowerAssist and PowerControl are working together with the input current limit.

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Answer 2 · 2023-09-30T08:28:20Z

Rudolf Dietz answered · Sep 30, 2023 at 08:28 AM

Hi Matthias,

below you see the lowest possible AC input current limitation value for the Quattro 10kVA unit, which is 1A. This value doesn't match with your latest reported post from Sep 17 2023 (10,5A each phase).

The recommended document (Achieving the impossible) also doesn't list any accurate specification of minimum Generator power for diverse MP+/Quattro models.

Trying the same setup for AC input limitation on a 10kVA 3-ph MP+ configuration, I see a different behaviour :

Here I did try again to enter 1A as AC input limit.

Result: The input current limit will then automatically changed to 8.5 A.

The 8.5A could then be understood as the minimum power any attached generator should be able to deliver on each phase. This example indicates that there is an individual minimum power requirement for attached generators, depending on the kVA size of the MP+/Quattro model. So a 3kVA MP+ would show a much lower minimum power requirement for an attached generator compared to a 15kVA MP+.

I think the 10,5A value you mentioned is not a value you can assign to all MP+/Quattro models.

Actually I am very confused not knowing the real required minimum power value on each phase of a Quattro 10kVA model which prevents me to buy a well fitting generator size.

I would have been expected a table created by Victron which is listing for each MP+/Quattro model the mimimum required Ampere value for an attached genset, but such a table obviously doesn't exist.

RudiD

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JohnC ♦ commented · Sep 30, 2023 at 12:42 PM

@Rudolf Dietz

"such a table obviously doesn't exist"

Look in VictronProfessional (signin needed). It's an Excel file, and here's an extract showing several Quattros..

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Answer 3 · 2023-09-30T15:03:42Z

Rudolf Dietz answered · Sep 30, 2023 at 03:03 PM

Hi JohnC,

thank you very much for the desired table I am looking for since some weeks.
This will help me to select a well fitting generator.

But I have trouble to find the highly desired table in Victron Professional.
Can you give me any hint in which section this table could be found ?
(Sreenshot, link, document name etc.)

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JohnC ♦ commented · Oct 01, 2023 at 02:41 AM

@Rudolf Dietz

VictronProfessional > Firmware > VE.Bus > Notes at the end > ..

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