I’m installing my new MultiPlus. Appreciate your input: cable size for AC to consumer unit will be 12M…. What size cable please?
also, can I extend ET112 cable, and any others to that length?
Thanks!
asked
Cables, distance, MultiPlus to consumer unit & MPPT
Size of AC wiring depends on the inverter being used. So a bit more information will be needed here.
Like Alexandra said, the size of your MultiPlus is pretty important regarding cable size.
Also, the location of the unit. If it is in a separate building, then there may be a minimum cable size regardless of how small the MultiPlus may be. Your electrician would be able to advise on this one.
If an external building, then the construction materials of the building especially if it is metal or if there are any extraneous metals parts within, your electrician will also be able to advise.
So sorry, both. It’s a Multiplus 5000/70. Sited in a connected garage, most likely within 12-13m of the consumer unit. Interested also in the comms cable lengths: ET112 etc.
In an attached garage then you'll most likely only need to worry about the current carrying capacity of the cable.
The MultiPlus 5000/70 has an AC transfer capacity of 50A which means that a minimum of 10mm² cable with 50A overload protection devices would be acceptable.
The RS485 cable can be extended by 12 metres. You may need to employ the terminators on each end of a long cable like this though. ET112 has an optional terminator built in and so does the Victron RS485 USB cable.
NB: UK ESS Certification
I am taking a wild guess that this will be a UK based installation?
If you plan to use the MultiPlus 5000/70 in an ESS system with grid feed in then there is currently a dispute with some DNOs regarding the current certification of this device for a G99 application. A resolution is in progress.
In any case, given that G99 is an application which requires approval, I'd recommend getting approval for your planned installation first before purchasing any expensive equipment. DNOs can reject a G99 application for a multitude of other reasons as they see fit. It is their network after all.
If you don't plan to configure the MultiPlus in ESS mode (no feed in possible) then G99 application is not required.
EDIT: @EamonnO I made a mistake, the 5000/70 has a transfer capacity of 50A, so if you want to transfer that amount then 10mm² would be needed.
Thank you for this. Yes, I am in the UK. Planning to do the installation myself - I am an electrician, although not registered to sign off. By feed-in, do you mean charge from the grid? If so, then I do plan to do that at night where required. So, I would need a registered installer to process the G99 application?
Like anyone else just an opinion:
1. re G99 compliance, Victron failed to submit enough info to demonstrate compliance to the ENA (a body above DNO's in the compliance hierarchy) and currently have no idea when they'll be in a position to seek compliance (something to do with LFSM-O??).
2. 'feed-in' usually means (counterintuitively) 'export to the grid' - however, it's probably not the case that if you set the device to no feed-in you don't need G99 approval. The fact that it's possible to merely change a setting to enable feed-in means that you probably need approval. Contact your DNO to find out - they aren't there to be a problem!
3. There's no requirement to use a registered installer. In fact, I don't think there is such a thing as a G99 registered installer!
Hope it goes well - given noise issue with Multiplus II, installing in a garage seems very sensible.
2. This is interesting. I'm stuck waiting for the ENA register update (and victron providing the required clarification). But frankly, if I can avoid the feed-in (i.e not export to the grid), wouldn't mind getting the installation done, then in a few months time, assuming the ENA register is updated, notify the DNO.
Lots of people are in the same position. And there's no timescale for when Victron will re-apply. Also, it's not just a case of 'clarification' - a UK sales person tells me "We are working on the LFSM-O values". It's not even clear if a firmware update will suffice - i.e. the devices people are currently taking delivery of may need a hardware upgrade. All that said, the DNOs and compliance people are all human and will recognse what a tricky situation it is. Some people will have purchased kit to avoid paying 40p+ for day rate electric (if on E7). Clearly, given the unique circumstances, you/the DNOs/ ENA will all expect that many people will likely go ahead - install, wait for approval and then notify.
Thank you both. I spoke with a Victron Salesperson a couple of weeks back, and he said they will have the approvals imminently. I’ve gone ahead and bought my kit, and moved to Octopus. Can’t load up at night until they arrange a smart meter installation. I’d read about the noise, so I’ve just sourced a large rack cabinet, and will install in the garage.
I’ve no intention of sending stored energy back to the grid, so I’ll go ahead and install, wait for the ENA update, and then notify.
Do share your setup when it's up. Would be good to see other Victron installation in the UK. I'm based in Scotland and struggling to find decent installers.
Remember, in standard mode, the MultiPlus in incapable of feeding in, so no feed in approvals or notifications are required. It only charges and supplies loads in standard mode.
If you modify the MultiPlus to make it capable of feeding in (ESS mode) then you ned to seek approval (G99 for 5kVA model).
That's an interesting position to take (is there anything about energy storage systems in the Magna Carta?).
Personally, I'm glad that you can't connect anything you like to the grid, that you need approval for anything which might, for example, upset line frequency or zap maintenance guys when the system is down. It's kind of reassuring that you need approval from the network operator when connecting a device like the Multiplus to the grid. What is a PITA is when manufacturers can't be bothered to keep up with compliance standards, with the consequence that lots of us are connecting devices which aren't compliant. That's where we are - thanks Victron.
It's important to understand that there are many use cases for an Inverter/Charger (MultiPlus or Quattro) where feed in is either prohibited, not required or is simply not practical. For example a motorhome with onboard MultiPlus pulling up to charge from the campsite electrical outlet post. This is why the devices are shipped in standard mode where the device can only consume energy and is incapable of feeding in, for safety reasons. Inverter/chargers have been used this way for decades, have never been capable of feed in and therefore have not needed approval for feed in.
It's only in the past few years that ESS mode came about. Only certain devices can accommodate this mode. ESS mode is a completely different mode of operation from standard mode. Anyone wishing to use the device in ESS mode absolutely does need to get approval from their network operator, for all of the reasons which you previously mentioned and more.
If you wish to feed in, you must get approval.
If you wish to drive a car, you must get a licence.
