Quattro II 48v 5kva won't switch Active AC input to genset in AC1

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Juha Tuomala asked Jul 30, '22

Quattro II 48v 5kva won't switch Active AC input to genset in AC1

Quattro II 48v 5kva here with European grid connection and old Perkings 12kva diesel genset. I'm trying out features for their feasibility.

Genset has electric start and running signals from its harness, but I'm starting it manually so far as I don't have the harness panel side with its instrumentation. However it gives steady 230V/50Hz in three phases, I'm using only one so far.

I've read quite many Quattro and genset threads and doc pages here. At least the following has been done:

GX:

- genset in AC1 input

- grid in AC2 input

- System setup -> AC input 1 = generator

- System setup -> AC input 2 = grid

- System setup -> Monitor for grid failure = disabled

- Generator start/stop -> Auto start = off

- Generator start/stop -> Settings -> Detect genset at AC input = off

- I/O -> Digital inputs: None has "Generator" as input value.

- Relays -> Relay 1 = Generator start/stop, not used yet.

Quattro:

- General -> Dynamic current limiter = On

- Grid -> LOM (loss of mains) detection -> AC1 input = disabled

- Charger -> Weak AC input = on

- Assistants -> ESS loaded

When the genset starts, multimeter shows good voltage and frequence in AC1 terminals, as well in Quattro's remote console top level's Quattro menu AC-in L1 numbers. But that also shows 0W and 0A current.

With these settings, Quattro detects the genset in AC1 since it drops the grid from AC2 and remote console shows in Active AC input: "Disconnected". When I turn genset off, it changes back to grid in AC2, then Active AC Input says again "AC IN2".

So, Quattro sees getset power in AC1, but doesn't accept it to passthrough nor for charger.

Maybe I should try to feed grid juice into AC1 as "genset power" and see does it accept that or is this a settings problem. Not sure would there be any neutral line issues, would assume that those are galvanically isolated inputs and that doesn't matter.

Both AC1 and AC2 inputs do work, as I just recently moved grid to AC1 as suggested.

Anyway, I'm inclined that this is a settings issue, can anyone give a hint what might cause it and what to try next?

I can't switch off the "UPS Fuction" from Grid -> Transfer switch as it doesn't exist anymore in current versions. Documentation should be versioned and modifyed once these changes are done, some people might still use older versions and need the old docs. Current situation is confusing.

Br,

Juha

Generator

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Juha Tuomala answered · Jul 30, 2022 at 02:58 PM

Best way to get solutions is to ask others and then solve it yourself.

I pulled the VE.Bus from Cerbo and hooked it into laptop, started the VE.Configure and monitored the inputs directly from the inverter. Tadaa, there the answer was: The input frequency was red, even it was 50,9 Hz. Since the Perkings does not have servo that would control the fuel feed, so I screwd its bolts to change the rpms until Qattro lit that freq value as orance.

Then the blue bar below parameters started "filling in", growing from left to right and once it reached 100%, AC1 was active. I guess that's the 60 seconds value in Inverter's grid settings for switch on delay.

After that remote console displayed Active AC input correctly

And VRM visualization displayed generator feeding the inverter. Although it did not reach the full ESS 2500w charging setting, not sure was it because of SOC or some other limitation. I figure it out in the future.

So, the frequency is way too picky for this genset as it doesn't have servo for rpm control. I can understand that 50 Hz is important for passthrough, but for the charger it shouldn't be that picky. In order to reproduce that power with fixed frequency, passtrough switch should remain off and charger+inverter should redo the power with proper paramteres. Not sure a) is it intended behaviour b) possible c) can Quattro handle such load. I'd assume not.

Anyway, can those switch-on criterias be changed and is that recommended?

I've been testing this without exhaust noise suppressor for three days with short runs and I bet my neighbours would have appreciated if this whole thing would not be so scattered over inverter, GX-Venus, VRM etc. :)

It does not feel like complete product, but mere like well integrated cross vendor products. Having to disconnect VE.bus cable in order to use VE.Configure and cut-off the output in order to load assistants (or run VE.Configure remotely through VRM) is not a good thing. Having some information and settings only available in VE.Configure and some in Venus should be solved somehow. I can see that these devices can be used separately without each other, but ideally Venus should be able to display and change everything that VE.Configure does and without disconnecting VE.Bus. I would also prefer to have Venus remote console as native application on desktop computer.

That said, I really like this Quattro. It's probably the best thing available at markets at the moment and once I get my panels, some meters etc it wil be even more fun.

Br,

Juha

vebusbluebar.png (227.6 KiB)

veconfigure.png (7.0 KiB)

remoteconsole.png (26.7 KiB)

vrm.png (33.9 KiB)

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Alexandra ♦ commented · Jul 30, 2022 at 06:52 PM

@Juha Tuomala

Nice solution. Saw the post earlier, we dont have a grid code where we are, but i did think about it. Adjusting the Perkins with the screw to change engine speed is something we end up doing sometimes.

If you remote configure over the vrm there is no need to unplug the GX.

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Juha Tuomala Alexandra ♦ commented · Aug 01, 2022 at 09:34 AM

I've used the remote configure through VRM but then it loads inverter assistants and cuts off the output which is no-no here. With local MK3 connection you can avoid that, but still change 90% of settings.

My environment is actually a bit more complex, as the windows runs in virtual machine and MK3 connection is USB-redirect over RDC-session. Loading those assistants actually kills the hypervisor that runs that very same windows machine. I'd rather see more management done through GX-instance UI.

And those red indicators for non-accepted parameters should definately be displayed in remote console UI. I spent couple days hunting that.

Br,

Juha

0 ·

Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2022-07-30T15:08:36Z

Juha Tuomala answered · Jul 30, 2022 at 03:08 PM

Are these low and high frequency settings the ones that I would have to modify? Apparently the red 50.900 was > 50.100 and hence it was not accepted?

What kind of can of worms I open if those are tampered? This site has computers, heating and some residental appliances like TV sets, etc.

1659193559265.png (8.6 KiB)

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