question

richie-gorrod avatar image
richie-gorrod asked

Zappi and Multiplus excess solar

Hello,

I have a solar array charging a large battery bank using 2 x mppt 250/85 (24v System). this then connects to a Multiplus 5000/24 running ESS to run the house. This system is working fantastically well. About to add more solar and another 2 MPPT's

I have just bought a zappi Mk2 car charger (7kw).

I am planning to buy another Multiplus 500/24 and run in parallel.

My question is - Is possible to limit the Zappi to a low current charge until I have excess energy from the Solar panels i.e. the batteries go into absorption. If I had an AC solar system the Zappi can handle it, by putting a CT clamp on the invertor output. It seems it cant from a DC system.


I currently have a light that comes on in the kitchen to say there is excess solar (triggered from the Multi relay outputs).

Hope this makes sense.

Many thanks.

Multiplus-II
9 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

xtopher avatar image xtopher commented ·

I am hoping to find the same thing. I have a Zappi already but looking to get a MPII to run ESS and then add solar to it. While just ESS and no solar, I will use my off peak energy tariff to charge the batteries and charge the Zappi on the same tariff, not using the batteries. But when I add solar, I want to be able to use just excess solar for Zappi as batteries wont be big enough to support it.


I have been wondering, can you set the MP2 to only export excess solar? As that if you are running an ET112, it can monitor export. Tell it to ordinarily have zero next export when there is no excess solar, so Zappi wont try and soak up anything (as it also monitors grid excess and there isnt any). MPII can give as much energy as house needs to satisfy demands but no more. Then when there is excess solar, always export it, and anything that then tries to go to the grid, the Zappi will see and will take up itself. Can that be made to happen?

I am currently in talks with a supplier and they are suggesting using MPPT controller behind the MPII to do my solar in the future but if it wont work with the Zappi, I think I will get a Fronius AC and put it infront of the MPII to allow the Zappi and Eddi to have the excess. Depending on how I grow my solar and batteries, can always have an MPPT powered array as well on the other side of the house just for the house and batteries maybe.

0 Likes 0 ·
dansonamission avatar image dansonamission commented ·

How are you trigging the multi to indicate there is excess solar? I have looked through the assisstants and can only see SOC.

0 Likes 0 ·
h-copter avatar image h-copter commented ·
Hi @Richie Gorrod @David Gould @Xtopher Just wondered if you have an update on how this is working for you? I have same system as @Richie Gorrod so am keen to hear what works. Thanks
0 Likes 0 ·
David Gould avatar image David Gould h-copter commented ·
@h_copter mine is in and working well, not that there has been much sun of late! Node Red checks state of battery and avaliable sun. Crude algorithm decides if esense contacts in Zappi are made or not. Calander controlled module in Node Red makes sure its full when i go away at weekends.
0 Likes 0 ·
richie-gorrod avatar image richie-gorrod David Gould commented ·

Hi David,


Would it be possible to post the flow for the node and zappi.?

Just getting into node red and enjoying the flexibility of it. Especially controlling the zappi dependent on state of charge currently.

many thanks

Rich

1691881761577.png

0 Likes 0 ·
1691881761577.png (212.1 KiB)
xtopher avatar image xtopher h-copter commented ·
Working pretty well for me. We eventually ended up with 6.6kWp solar, RS450/100 and MPII 5000 (plus Zappi and Eddi already).


Zappi/Eddi are set to have an export margin of ~150w, and run on ECO+, so they will only kick in when there is an export of more than 150w. MPII is in default ESS mode so will charge the batteries first then export excess when the Zappi/Eddi will hover it up. So for excess solar works well.

When solar isn’t enough I have NodeRed adjust the schedules in MPII, Zappi and Eddi to force charge between 0030-0430 which is our off peak. This also works well as it means if the Zappi or Eddi need charging, the MPII is also set to charge and won’t use battery for charging the car or heating the DHW.


The only issue I’m yet to solve, is what to do when you want to charge in the day and not use the battery. But tbh, we’ve done it very infrequently and actually it’s cheaper to take some from the battery as it’s charged on solar or off peak anyway. The only way around that I think is to have the MyEnergi Libbi which fully integrates into their other products.

0 Likes 0 ·
h-copter avatar image h-copter xtopher commented ·

I'm not completely clear on how to configure MPII to achieve this (still quite new to this). I presume MPII has a higher export target that Zappi, so chases this as Zappi ramps up? But how does MPII know to only use exces solar, and not deplete the batteries? Also, what happens once Zappi has finished charging and the sun goes down? Does MPII then stop all export? Thanks. BTW, is it possible to PM me to discuss further? Maybe email richhole1 at gm dot c

0 Likes 0 ·
xtopher avatar image xtopher h-copter commented ·
I believe the standard ESS assistant is configured so that it will use any solar to first service house loads, second to the battery and finally export any left. They key is to get the Zappi only to take the excess and not just charge a full pelt, in which case it will be see as a house load and thats when it drains the batteries.


This is achieved using the export margin in the MyEnergi devices. Setting a grid target for the ESS (in Cerbo) of zero means you will get some swings in import/export as it tries to maintain zero, and I've seen this can typically hit 100w quite often when a load switches off. So you need to set the MyEnergi devices to only kick in when more than that is seen. Depending on your setup it can vary somewhat but around 150w seems to be good for me. This means the MPII needs to be exporting more than 150w before the Zappi will kick in on ECO+. There's other settings that can be fiddled I think to also help with it, but it will mean reading both the Zappi and MPII/ESS manuals to understand, its a non-trivial task, which is why the MyEnergi Libbi will be in short supply! Victron does offer benefits over MyEnergi though around other finer controls and better islanding etc.

0 Likes 0 ·
richie-gorrod avatar image richie-gorrod xtopher commented ·

Hi Xtopher,

For the charging during the day could you not get node red to limit the Multi ESS max invertor Power?

Cheers

Rich


1691881998806.png

0 Likes 0 ·
1691881998806.png (76.0 KiB)
7 Answers
gregdon avatar image
gregdon answered ·

I have a slightly different system - here is my experience if this helps. I have a Quattro, 8kw, running in ESS mode. I can control how much energy to flow back to the grid. If I set the Quattro to send back less than 1.5kw then the Zappi never sees enough Surplus to commence charge to the car in eco+. (minimum charge to the car is 1.4kw) I have the slider control on the Zappi app all the way over to 100% green so that it will only use Surplus solar energy. Perhaps you could set the Zappi eco+ mode to 90% green and draw just 10% from the Grid? by the way, my Quattro switches on the export mode while in Absorb at about 95% SOC.

One criticism I have of the Zappi CT´s is that they are all AC so measuring what's coming off my panels or what's coming from my batteries is not possible. I have a CT installed on the output, (AC), of my inverter, never seen anything displayed on the Zappi screen from that CT.

1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

dansonamission avatar image dansonamission commented ·
Are you using an assisstant to turn on and off PV export?
0 Likes 0 ·
lackland avatar image
lackland answered ·

One option is to use the "e-sense" input on the Zappi, which can be configured to stop/start charging. Wants a low-current 240V signal so you'll need another relay.

Details are in the Zappi manual. A related keyword on forums is "Economy 7", the name of the overnight electricity tariff this feature was first designed for.

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

richie-gorrod avatar image
richie-gorrod answered ·

Amazing Thankyou for the info will take a look.

Will pop Relay on the output from the multi once it goes into Absorption.


1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

dansonamission avatar image dansonamission commented ·
Where can i find the option for turn on relay once absortption is reach or are you basing this on battery SOC?

Thanks.

0 Likes 0 ·
alan-falck avatar image
alan-falck answered ·

Hi guys, I have a MPII 5Kva GX and BSL5.2 Kva battery with 4kw solar. I also have an ET112 Energy Meter to control my ESS Self Consumption profile. I have a Zappi II and 2 CT Clamps, one on Grid and the other 'Generation Only' mode connected to the Victron AC out.

The challenge I face is the Zappi waits for surplus power in Eco mode but never sees this because the Victron diverts all surplus to 1) Critical loads 2) Battery 3) 'non-critical loads'. As I don't have grid feed-in, I think the voltage is always just less than the grid (to prevent feedback) so the Zappi fights with this setup.

My thoughts are It's probably better not to have a second CT clamp on the Zappi and let Victron itself divert surplus power to the Zappi. I would love to hear your views on this. FYI I did find some helpful info on the MyEnergi (Zappi) forum https://myenergi.info/zappi-victron-multiplus-ii-battery-storage-t3482.html this is my identical setup...Alan


2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

xtopher avatar image
xtopher answered ·

I could be wrong, and may be better to ask on the ME forums, but removing the CT on the export will mean the Zappi is unable to ramp up/down to meet any excess. As such, it will work but you wont be able to use that ability and you will have to just tell the charger to start the charge and it will go flat out at 7kW (assuming you have a 1ph Zappi).


Are you not allowed to export at all?

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

David Gould avatar image
David Gould answered ·

I am just about to take delivery of a Zappi and will control it with esense. I have solar panels and battery bank and will turn on the zappi when the batteries are at the required level, this is calculated based on time of day and weather using node-red to control a relay. I wish i knew you to get node-red to see the level of charge in the car?

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

hanszw avatar image
hanszw answered ·

Hi everybody,

I have a DIY Enphase AC system with zero feed in, and thinking of buying a Multiplus II GX with Pylontech battery's

To be prepared for EV and maximum use of solar excess energy I was looking also for the Zappi / Eddi hot water solucions but like I see this it can't be possible without using a Feed back to the grid option

Victrons new EV charger NS also has a eco solar charging option and my question is if will work without feed back to grid enabled?

https://www.victronenergy.com/ev-charging/ev-charging-station-ns

I life in the South of Europe and prefer to use the grid only for bad weather backup, if I accidentally feed in back to the grid I will be charged for it like consumption as well


Thanks for replying





2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.