question

Lyndsay Cotton avatar image
Lyndsay Cotton asked

Multiplus 2 - Current limit on throughput

@Matthias Lange - DE - A follow on question to a prev answer on AC out

Please read my questions in terms of a PARALLEL (2 x Multiplus 2 48/5000) installation

Manual Paragraph 4.3 AC cabling

• AC-in

The AC input must be protected by a fuse or magnetic circuit breaker rated at 32 A( for 3 kVA model) and 50 A( for 5 kVA

model) or less, and cable cross-section must be sized accordingly. If the input AC supply is rated at a lower value, the fuse or ...

So maximum throughput is 50A from AC In to both AC1 & AC2. It would thus be acceptable to install a 10mm2 cable from the grid - distance is less than 1.0m

Could it be deemed acceptable that the cable supplying inverter 1 & inverter 2 not necessarily being the same length? (and possibly not the same cross section?)

• AC-out-1

With its PowerAssist feature the Multi can add up to 3 kVA (that is 3000 / 230 = 13 A) to the output during periods of peak power

requirement. Together with a maximum input current of 32 A this means that the output can supply up to 32 + 13 = 45 A.

Thus my understanding is that my cable on AC1[out] should be sized to cater for - AC in = 50A plus 5 kVa ie 5000 / 230 = 21.74A. Then together with the max input current the output could supply 50 + 21.74 = 71.74A.

Meaning I would have to size cable accordingly which would be 16mm2 at minimum.

Therefore output AC1 could / should have a larger cross section than AC In


• AC-out-2

A second output is available that .....

that may only operate if AC voltage is available on AC-in-1, e.g. an electric.... The load on AC-out-2 is

disconnected immediately when the Quattro switches to battery operation....

My understanding is that the maximum throughput being 50A from the mains & a possible 21.74A additional that this could ALSO be passed through AC2. Should AC2 thus also be sized accordingly - say 16mm2


In "wiring unlimited' it was explained that the output cables should be equally sized & slightly restricted to create a bit of resistance to balance the loads between the Inverters. (Implying both in cross section and length)

Does this equally apply to both AC1 & separately equally to AC2 on both inverters

OR

Is the AC2 output deemed the "auxiliary" as in the data sheet and thus limited to 32A

Meaning:

AC1 - both cables separately going to a common circuit breaker of equal cross section & length. What would / could my maximum circuit breaker capacity be on the load side

AC2 - both cables can be limited to sizing of a maximum of 32A. Would the same requirement apply viz cross section and length? or should the cable be the same as AC1


Paragraph :4.4.7 Parallel Connection

It is essential the negative battery terminal between the units is always connected. A fuse or circuit breaker is not allowed.

Does this mean that the DC Isolator negative should never be fused? What are the implications of fusing the negative. Some dealers have told me they fuse the neg

I use the KETO brand battery isolator & fuse both positive and negative - Do I then put a link in the negative to bridge?

Multiplus-II
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3 Answers
tozz avatar image
tozz answered ·

The 5 kVA model refers to the maximum throughput. The battery charger/inverter function is limited to 70/50A. At 58V that is about 4000VA (charger) and 2900VA (inverter).

I have a MP-II 48/5000/70-50, and I can confirm those 3360VA/2400VA values are correct.

Question 1: Different wiring to AC-in shouldn't matter, as it doesn't measure that part of the installation. So no issues should arise from difference in resistance due to cable length differences and or cross section differences.

Question 2: No. The maximum feed through current is 50A. The 32A input and the 3 kVA (13A) PowerAssist. Your "50A plus 5 kVA" assumption is incorrect. It can't assist 5 kVA. PowerAssist is limited to 3 kVA. So again, it's 32A + 13A. = 45 amps.

Question 3: Again, I think this is incorrect. maximum throughput from mains isn't 50A. It's 32A. The 50A is with 32A AC and maximum PowerAssist.

Question 4: I think so yes. Regardless, outputs are limited in amps (both 1 and 2). So you should have circuit breakers for each individual unit.

Question 5: You can fuse the negative, but you should NOT fuse the negative terminal of individual MP-II units. If you want to fuse the negative, you should place the fuse after you've combined the negative terminal from all units.

If you fuse individual units on the negative terminal, and one of them is blown, the negative current will flow through the VE.Bus RJ45 cable, which will fry the circuit.

So with the KETO isolator.. You combine the negative terminals from the MP-II's into one (eg using a busbar) and fuse the connection from the busbar to the battery.


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gmf avatar image
gmf answered ·

@Lyndsay Cotton / @Matthias Lange - DE did you every get to the bottom of this question. The MP-II 48/5000/70-50 spec sheet clearly indicates the input current is 50A and the transfer switch is 50A also so I think the answer you received above perhaps is being confused with the 3000va unit which has a 32A input current.

I am looking at buy this unit (just one) and have Single Phase 60A mains power currently so was wondering if I can just directly connect all existing loads to the MP2 (AC1 and AC2) and PowerAssist will help with anything between 50A and 60A when AC IN is active. Alternative is to bypass the MP2 for larger (non critical) loads which could push the collective draw up to the 60A circuit breaker on the DB and not use AC2 at all.

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rata1 avatar image
rata1 answered ·

This is from the Quattro data sheet. I can't see it being any different for the MP2, and my understanding of the PowerAssist on a MP-II 48/5000/70-50 is 50A + 21A on AC-out-1, 50A on AC-out-2.



AC-in-1 (see appendix A, maximum torque: 7 Nm)

If AC voltage is present on these terminals, the Quattro will use this connection. Generally a generator will be connected to ACin-1.

The AC-in-1 input must be protected by a fuse or magnetic circuit breaker rated at 100A or less, and cable cross section must be sized accordingly. If the input AC supply is rated at a lower value, the fuse or magnetic circuit breaker should be down sized accordingly.

AC-in-2 (see appendix A, maximum torque: 7 Nm)

If AC voltage is present on these terminals, the Quattro will use this connection, unless voltage is also present on AC-in-1. The Quattro will then automatically select AC-in-1. Generally the mains supply or shore voltage will be connected to AC-in-2.

The AC-in-2 input must be protected by a fuse or magnetic circuit breaker rated at 100A or less, and cable cross section must be sized accordingly. If the input AC supply is rated at a lower value, the fuse or magnetic circuit breaker should be down sized accordingly.

Note: The Quattro may not start when AC is present only on AC-in-2, and DC battery voltage is 10% or more below nominal (less than 11 Volt in case of a 12 Volt battery).

Solution: connect AC power to AC-in-1, or recharge the battery.

AC-out-1 (see appendix A, maximum torque: 7 Nm)

The AC output cable can be connected directly to the terminal block "AC-out".

With its PowerAssist feature the Quattro can add up to 5, 8, 10 or 15kVA (for example 10.000 / 230 = 43A) to the output during periods of peak power requirement.

Together with a maximum input current of 100A this means that the output can supply up to 100 + 21 = 121A (5kVA models),

100 + 35 = 135A (8kVA models), 100 + 43 = 143A (10kVA model) and 100 + 65 = 165A (15kVA model).

An earth leakage circuit breaker and a fuse or circuit breaker rated to support the expected load must be included in series with the output, and cable cross-section must be sized accordingly. The maximum rating of the fuse or circuit

breaker is 125A (5kVA models), 135A (8kVA), 143A (10kVA) resp. 165A (15kVA).

AC-out-2 (see appendix A, maximum torque: 7 Nm)

A second output is available that disconnects its load in the event of battery operation. On these terminals, equipment is connected that should operate only if AC voltage is available on AC-in-1 or AC-in-2, e.g. an electric boiler or an air conditioner. The load on AC-out-2 is disconnected immediately when the Quattro switches to battery operation. After AC power becomes available on AC-in-1 or AC-in-2, the load on AC-out-2 will be reconnected with a delay of approximately 2 minutes.

This to allow a genset to stabilise.

AC-out-2 can support loads of up to 50A. An earth leakage circuit breaker and fuse rated at max. 50A must be connected in

series with AC-out-2.

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