Why can I not get power to pass through my Quattros?

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Michael J. Kidd asked Jun 21, '22

Why can I not get power to pass through my Quattros?

I sit here, 10:20 pm in Las Vegas. Having conducted a battery run time test on my brand new Victron Energy install of Dual Quattro 24/5000/120-2x100 120V, in Split Phase... they kicked out well above my low voltage threshold, and while I can get the inverter side running... I cannot get shore power to reconnect to charge the batteries, or power the coach.

It's now been over 6 hours. I resorted to reconnecting one of my Magnum 4000 Hybrid inverters to a 30amp shore cable just to try and charge the Tesla battery modules. Thankfully, it was only 94F ( 34.4 C ) today, and not last weekend when it was 108F / 42.2C.

Why... oh why... do my quattro's not reconnect shore power?

VE.bus monitor shows only green and normal readings, yet each timeout of the little blue bar, I hear multiple relay clicks, and again, nothing.

Actions I took to try and get shore power to reconnect:

I originally had ESS assistant loaded, so I removed that from both quattro's
I had UPS function turned on, so I turned that off and updated both quattro's
I set the Grid code standard back to None from Other on both quattro's
I tried changing the VE.bus config from 2 AC inputs, to 1 AC input ( I only use AC in-1 anyway )
I tried changing the Leg2 from Floating with return, to just floating ( always set at 180 out of phase )
I tried powering both units off via the mechanical switch for about 5 minutes
I tried fully removing power from both units ( AC and DC ) for about 5 minutes
I disconnected the quattro's output to the coach ( via the coach breaker )
I tried so many times putting it from Off, to Charge Only.. to Off, to On, etc..
Finally, I pulled out one of my two Magnum MSH-4024 inverters and powered it via a 30amp cord just to get the batteries charging again

Again, the Inverter will always invert ( as long as the battery voltage was high enough ).. but the shore power just will not stay connected.

So, my wife, dog, 3 cats and myself.. got to enjoy the heat of a Las Vegas afternoon, knowing shore power was just right there.. but wouldn't make it's way into the coach to run our Air Conditioners.

I'm super frustrated, wife acceptance factor of my new $7000+ Victron setup is at an understandable near 0, and I'm wondering what else I need to do to get these things working.

Note too that the quattro's are running the latest firmware ( 2748497 ). As I type this, the Tesla modules are now at 22.66 volts or roughly 55% charge, and still the Quattro's won't connect to shore power (it was suggested to me that the low battery voltage was to blame?)

I'm so very eager to hear any recommendations besides don't use Tesla modules. I know their voltage swing is atypical, but the Quattro's are supposed to run down to 19v, but clearly that did not happen here. And even so, why would they not permit shore power back into the system to recharge the batteries and/or supply the coach with power?

Please.. anyone.. help me get my coach powered back up.

Thanks,
linuxkidd

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger

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Michael J. Kidd answered · Jun 22, 2022 at 02:05 AM

Ok all, the solution was identified, applied and confirmed...

Special thanks to @Natebert and @Robkenny for both coming up with the same answer.. and both being right.

The issue, begins with an explanation.

The Hybrid inverters ( power assist in Victron parlance ) from Magnum do not support operating in parallel.
Thus, to use two Hybrid inverters on a split phase installation, you MUST split the outputs of the inverters, including the neutrals.
Since my installation from 4 years ago was two, MSH-4024 Hybrid inverters, I had split my outputs in the coach breaker panel to accommodate this requirement.

The Victron gear, split phase ( and even, somehow, two non VE.bus connected Quattros ) has an absolute requirement that the neutrals of both inverters be BONDED.

No one quite knows why it worked with the neutrals split for the first two days, but day 3 - it would not work in this config.

I shut down the inverters, added a 6awg jumper to bond the new neutral bars in my breaker box, and turned the inverters back on... VIOLA! Both legs connected to shore power without issue.

Thanks again to all who offered suggestions, I hope this helps someone in the future to solve this real head scratcher of an issue.

Thanks,
linuxkidd

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Modifications Space

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Answer 1 · 2022-06-21T06:13:17Z

bathnm answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 06:13 AM

Do you have a temperature sensor connected. Maybe it didn’t exist or is faulty and an incorrect reading is triggering the do not charge. Try disabling the do not charge below temperature

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Answer 2 · 2022-06-21T06:32:08Z

nickdb answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 06:32 AM

Have you tried to enable the "weak AC" setting?

As you know it isn't a supported battery and weird things can happen when you go off piste.

Good luck, I am in vegas next week and it seems a tad warm. can't imagine anyone being mildly amused about having no aircon in that heat.

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Answer 3 · 2022-06-21T13:13:25Z

Michael J. Kidd answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 01:13 PM

Hi @Bathnm and @nickdb ..

- no temperature sensors connected to the system. I did this because the LiPo doesn't need temperature compensation.
- I did try the Weak AC setting, but that didn't make any difference, thanks for the suggestion.
- I also tried starting my generator and the quattro's wouldn't connect to that either.

This morning, my Magnum has my batteries fully charged, but still, the Quattro's won't connect to shore power. So, now.. the issue seems completely unrelated to the battery SOC.

I'm now running basic loads off the inverter side of the Quattro's, but they won't pass shore power still - so I'm hesitant to run my Air Conditioners.

Thanks, keep the suggestions coming!

linuxkidd

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Answer 4 · 2022-06-21T14:18:52Z

JohnC answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 02:18 PM

Hi @Michael J. Kidd

In your 'General' screen, try ticking Dynamic Current Limiter. That will bring on ACIn gradually over a few seconds. Also lower the ACIn Current Limits as a test, even way down to the minimum (remotely if you choose).

Doubtful ac shore/genset wiring (bad plug or suchlike) can also do this. Don't assume, check! There might be something in this article that gels as well.. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/multiplus_faq

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Answer 5 · 2022-06-21T14:24:46Z

bathnm answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 02:24 PM

Have you checked with a multi meter if you actually have any voltage on AC1 in?

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Answer 6 · 2022-06-21T15:12:21Z

Michael J. Kidd answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 03:12 PM

Hi @JohnC and @Bathnm

- Just re-enabled DVCC as a test, so far no luck, but leaving it on just in case it syncs up soon.

- Definitely have power on AC1 In, even the inverters are reporting it:

Also, when it connects / tests the incoming AC, I do sometimes see a ramp in current for a fraction of a second before it disconnects again.

Thanks,
linuxkidd

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Answer 7 · 2022-06-21T16:47:30Z

robkenny answered · Jun 21, 2022 at 04:47 PM

Are you sure both inverters are grouped properly?

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Answer 8 · 2022-06-21T18:39:21Z

Hi all,

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far. I spent a few hours on the phone with my distributor and @Robkenny , so I wanted to catch everyone up on the efforts thus far.

We tried enabling UPS with DVCC enabled
We tried resetting to default settings, then only changing the battery voltages to be safe
We then divorced the two Quattro's from their split-phase config
- Specifically, disconnecting the VE.bus links between them
- Here, we made progress!!
Inverter 1:
- First, I re-flashed firmware 479 to ensure all settings were wiped
- Then configured for single phase
- It connected to Mains right away!!
- I then modified my settings for battery voltages, etc.. to be safe, and it still works fine.
- Updated with everything except any assistants, and still working properly.
Inverter 2:
- Tried repeating the same steps as inverter 1 -- it continued to have the click/click (connect / disconnect )
- We changed many settings changes, flashing firmware again, etc... no success
- I downloaded the config from Inverter 1, and sent it to inverter 2
- We tried adding it back into a split-phase config:
  - When 'switch as group' is checked in the VE.bus configuration, both inverters have the disconnection issue again
  - When 'switch as group' is NOT checked, inverter 1 connects to mains, but inverter 2 has the click/click issue again.

So, at this point.. it seems inverter 2 is not behaving properly.

I don't know that there's much more from a software / settings / firmware perspective that could be tried, but I'm very open to suggestions. Otherwise, I worry a warranty process is going to be necessary.

Thanks again to everyone who has tried to help. I really appreciate the community!

linuxkidd

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