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jury.coetzee@gmail.com avatar image

Quattro 5000 and three US3000B PylonTechs

I run a Quatro 48/5000/70 2x100 product id 2658 firmware 4.24 device 257 with CCGX version 2.33. I just installed three Pylontech US 3000 batteries, I configured exactly as per setup page on victron site but Quatro refuses to start up , Mains and battery low light flashes and CCGX display Pylontech Batteries at 67% charge and 49.6V with charge current limit at 111A

Quatro refuses to move from Charge only, not even from CCGX or manual switch. Please help.


Pylontech
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merle.peter@gmail.com avatar image
merle.peter@gmail.com answered ·

If you use the Sunny Boy with the Home Manager you can set the Sunny Boy to zero Grid feed. There might be stability issues with ESS / Hub 2 but in theory it should work as the control feedback loop between the Home manager ( which also measures the power flow at Grid connection ) and the Sunny Boy will maintain a zero feed ( or another number as Set on the Sunny Portal )

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merle.peter@gmail.com avatar image
merle.peter@gmail.com answered ·

IS your Quattro now working with 3 US 3000 Pylontechs ?


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Hi Peter, I eventually bit the bullet and bought a Fronius Primo and configured the system with ESS. The system works like a dream now and the three Pylontechs are working great. I will eventually upgrade to more PylonTechs because the three are charged to 100% (from 20%) by 13h00 on a sunny day so there is scope for more storage.

I am considering using the Sunnyboy with a power control module or using the Home manager to achieve zero feed-in as an additional inverter. Problem is to integrate that into the Victron control system. We will work on that.

For now I am happy.

Regards

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

The minimum configuration specified in the manual is 4 Pylontech for a 5000.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom#minimum_battery_sizing_recommendations

A possible theory:

Try disconnecting the Multi from the CCGX and see if it would allow the inverter to “ignore” the warnings of over current that are being sent from the batteries to the CCGX, and stopping the Multi from turning on and preventing doing damage to the batteries. Though the batteries themselves might shut down if those over current messages are being ignored.

I would suggest having the MINIMUM number of specified batteries to maintain your battery warranty.

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Thanks for the response Guy.

Yes I am aware of the fact that I need four batteries to handle the full capability, The three Pylontech batteries report that they can handle 111A charge / discharge which is way more than the 70A max the Quatro can handle, also there is currently no load connected, I am just trying to get the system running. The Quatro starts up in charger only mode, reports 49.6V on its inputs but refuses to turn on.

My questions is why? Mains and low battery led flashes. I am stumped.

Even with no load, just connecting the inverter requires pre-charging its capacitors. This inrush current surge for the 5KVa exceeds the maximum that can be supplied by 3 modules.

The 5KVa Quattro can demand up to 10,000W, at 50V, this is 200A+. The inrush can be double or more that again but much shorter (milliseconds).

Once the demand exceeds the limits of the battery BMS, performance becomes unreliable and unpredictable. That is why there is the minimum specification, I have seen a few very unusual things occur when I was testing the Pylontech’s, but no issues once the minimum number were installed.

To try and get the system working, try a complete system shut down. Everything turned off, including the batteries. Then try and precharge the inverters capacitors by using an MPPT solar charge controller connected to a solar panel. It will trickle power into the inverter, and prevent the inrush demand from the batteries.

The batteries can then be powered up, and the system might work.

If you get it going, probably a good idea to upgrade to the latest firmware for the Quattro too.

jury.coetzee@gmail.com avatar image jury.coetzee@gmail.com Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ ·

Thanks for the the information but I do not think it has anything to do with inrush current, I reverted back to the LA battery and reset all parameters in VE Config and all was working fine.

I then set all parameters in the Charger and Inverter settings to the Lithium batteries and everything was still working fine

I then selected the Lithium batteries using VME Bus using the Hub2 assistant (for various reasons I cannot use ESS). Still on LA batteries. I then got the same symptoms with the Quatro refusing to turn on.

I then reverted to the normal batteries selection in the Hub 2 assistant, with the lithium battery parameters defined in the charger and inverter section and switched over to the physical lithium batteries. The hub 2 assistant not switched to lithium batteries and the system started up no problem. Under a big load however the system oscillated between inverting and bulk charging so not optimal.

The notes provided for the ESS configuration indicate a lithium battery selection using" other BMS". This is over and above the VME Bus BMS and two wire BMS. I think that this is where the problem comes in since the PylonTech is CAN Bus controlled. The Hub2 assistant does not have this option.

Can somebody please confirm this?

Apologies for the long post but I could not find a shorter way to describe this.

Hub-2 was deprecated in 2014 and is no longer supported - https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:overview_of_available_assistants?s%5B%5D=hub

ESS replaced it and improved support and compatibility for CANbus managed lithium batteries.

Perhaps it would be better to start a new question about the issue with ESS and why you still need HUB-2.

jury.coetzee@gmail.com avatar image jury.coetzee@gmail.com Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ ·

Thanks,

I have an SMA sunnyboy inverter and ESS does not support no grid feedback for non fronius inverters. I already asked the support question and am yet to receive a decent answer. There seems to be no interest by Victron in supporting non-fronius inverters.

I have been running the system now for 24 hours using non lithium selection on hub2 assistant, and overriding it with a lithium selection and fixed charging profile on the charger tab and it seems to be running fine. I will keep tabs and let you know. It might help somebody else